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Author Topic: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?  (Read 2966 times)

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theuprising

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Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« on: January 07, 2015, 06:58:38 AM »

As stated it in the Subject line my question is does subsidence occur with all methods or only pure external.
Is there any way to prevent it?
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crimsontide

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2015, 06:59:29 AM »

subsidence is negligible at worst
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GeTs

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 11:16:37 AM »

Interested too
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TRS

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 11:59:13 AM »

Callus subsidence is higher with pure external and according to Dr.Birkholtz it can be up to 1cm after frame removal. In this study http://informahealthcare.com/doi/full/10.3109/17453674.2010.533934 subsidence was shown to be up to 0.6mm while http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18923832 shows that 54% of the patient had more than 1cm subsidence. However that latter study had an error and was acknowledged by the authors.
Dr.Birkholtz did mention that subsidence should not be an issue with internals or combination methods and Dr.Rozbruch does state that lower callus subsidence is seen with LON compared to externals http://www.llrs.org/PDFs/whats_new_2012.pdf (on page 2329 under the title Hybrid Techniques).
Anyway subsidence is one of the main reason that is deterring me from pure externals. Subsidence of 1cm will be devastating when doing 4cm tibias and I have time constraints to lengthen 5 cm and wear frames for another 1-2 months to allow for any possible subsidence. 
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theuprising

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2015, 08:33:14 PM »

It's a tough call TRS. The height loss from pure externals or the potential permanent knee pain from nailing. It requires further discussion from anyone doing tibias as more people on the forum seem to be leaning towards pure externals.
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crimsontide

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 08:36:38 PM »

 i think i look taller after frame removal tbh


i definitely did not lose height

i think this is a non issue... odds of losing height are very low
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Sean Connery

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 08:57:37 PM »

Most cases of large degrees of subsidence are just error of judgment when examining the x-ray, and in that first study TRS posted it stated that the conclusion was "Our results indicate that no subsidence of clinical interest occurs after external frame removal."

Quoted from the first study:

"There have been very few reports dealing with possible changes in length of the callotasis zone after removal of an external fixator in DO. Fracture or collapse of the regenerated bone rarely occurs, but a small compression of the newly formed bone that cannot be seen on plain radiographs may be more frequent. There have been anecdotal reports of this delayed complication phenomenon (Aldegheri et al. 1989, Paley 1990). To our knowledge Shyam et al. (2009) are the only authors to have published measured values of delayed loss of length or callus subsidence in DO. They found a tibial subsidence (compression) of 4–32 mm, with about half of the 81 lengthened segments in 48 patients showing a subsidence of 1 cm or more. However, we have argued that the authors did not consider the effect of the divergence of the X-ray beam (Gunderson et al. 2010). They made direct measurements on the electronic images without calibration for the change in distance between the tibia and the film before and after removal of the ring fixator. This error has been acknowledged by the authors (Song and Shyam 2010).


The RSA method itself has a high accuracy, and changes in order of 0.01 mm can be detected (Kärrholm et al. 1997). In most reports dealing with RSA, the precision in clinical settings has been found to vary between 0.15 and 0.60 mm (Steen et al. 2001, Kärrholm et al. 1997). These studies have been performed with old calibration cages and manual measurements made on scanned radiographic films. In the present work, the accuracy and precision of the measurements were estimated to be 0.30 mm and 0.43 mm, respectively. By the use of optimized conditions with the newer model of calibration cage (# 43), 2 ceiling-mounted X-ray tubes fired by 1 single button, no scanning of films, and the latest version of software, a better precision would be expected (Börlin et al. 2002, Mäkinen et al. 2004).

The range of subsidence from –0.37 to 0.27 mm between the 2 post-removal examinations can be regarded as a measure of error or precision of our study. These errors are most likely due to practical and functional conditions: e.g. the geometry of the location of the spheres in the bone, the degree to which the spheres are hidden by the metal, and finally, the positioning of the patient at the moment of examination. However, all our measured values were less than the size of the error or less than 1 mm, which indicates that the subsidence of callotases after removal of the external fixator is negligible and of no clinical interest."
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ItsMyLife

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2015, 09:03:41 PM »

look taller cos ur really fk up posture when ur walking on walkers... haha i think i look same height if i hunch.
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ItsMyLife

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Re: Subsidence does it occur with all methods?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 09:05:06 PM »

i think i look taller after frame removal tbh


i definitely did not lose height

i think this is a non issue... odds of losing height are very low

how many mm did bagirov postulate this to be?
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