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[alps]

I'm somewhere between 6 and 6.3cm at the moment. So happy to be flying home tomorrow. I'll click for a week more max, then I'm done. 6.5cm was always my goal.

A word of caution to prospective LL'ers...don't be like me and only hear what you want to hear. Some patients may lengthen 100cm and have no pain. They are either extremely lucky, have super high pain tolerances, or work for Cirque du Soleil. I only focused on these diaries and hoped and convinced myself it wouldn't hurt. I went with an amazing doctor and team, but Lord have mercy...the pain has been excruciating. And it's gotten worse and worse...not better. After 5cm, it's been nightmarish pain every day. Extreme tightness, knee pain, muscle pain, sciatica (yup), painful visits to an osteopath to fix my crooked pelvis.

Somehow I'm still alive...but what I'm saying is...don't think you're Superman like I did. I don't care how great shape you're in...Prepare for the worst.

Wow, I wish you a good recovery man!

Why did you pelvis get crooked? Didn't they have an osteopath at the isokinetic centre?

You're one brave dude for continuing despite nerve pain.

[ReadRothbard]

Im glad you're almost there, man. Hopefully the pain will be done.

[Manga]

Any updates bro?

[YellowSpike]

Hey Manga - was just coming on here to update!

As of today, according to Dr. Guichet's click file...I am at 6.5cm. Although, given my pain, the x-rays, what the radiologists have said (they claimed I was at 6.2cm around February 3), I honestly feel like I lengthened closer to 7cm. But, to be conservative, we will say I did 6.5cm as of my last clicks this morning. And now - I am done, done, DONE with clicking/lengthening. The pain has increased the more I lengthened, and I've only been able to walk (on crutches) the past week, since almost everything else hurts (though Dr. G did say I could somewhat lighten the workload a bit). And clicking the last few days REALLY hurt my damn right leg. This puts me at right about 5'8", given Dr. Guichet's initial measurement of me in Milano and what I lengthened. So whatever...I'm done. 5'8" was always my goal. All I ever wanted was to be taller than most women (or as tall as them with their precious heels). Plus I still have duck-ass, so I'm loosing some visual height still. I know so many guys on here think 6ft is now short, they're shooting for 6'5", all I can say is...good luck.

Now it's time to start the true recovery process and hopefully remove the crutches soon-ish. I'm very nervous about starting to walk again. Extremely nervous. I hope I haven't done long-term damage to my body. This has been an excruciatingly painful process. I just hope it's mostly downhill from here. I pray to God that my legs forgive me and that I'll walk normally again someday and that the pain/extreme tightness will go away. I want this nightmare to end.

[Overdozer]

Can you describe the pain? I personally suggest you taking a week or two break and then continue clicking to 7.0 or 7.5 cm. It's understood that it's hard, but you keep the height forever and the pain is going to disappear very shortly after aborting the lengthening.

[YellowSpike]

Can you describe the pain? I personally suggest you taking a week or two break and then continue clicking to 7.0 or 7.5 cm. It's understood that it's hard, but you keep the height forever and the pain is going to disappear very shortly after aborting the lengthening.

Absolutely not. I'm done now. I have to get back to work and my life. I don't have the leisure of running my own business or still being in college like many on here do. I already feel like I got closer to 7cm anyway. God knows how many months it'll be until I'm walking normally again. I feel so useless right now and I'm tired of it.

The pain is excruciating. Remember, Dr. G doesn't give ITB releases...so both of my ITB's (particularly, my right leg) are in a LOT of pain, especially when I have to move or put some weight on them. My ankles also hurt, my knee flexion is horrible, and I have nerve pain on my right leg that goes all the way down to my foot. And the pain meds do NOTHING for any of this. And it's gotten really bad the past 3 weeks. I would say, starting at the 2 inch mark, things got really really bad pain wise.

My body is telling me it's time to stop, so I'm just done. 6.5cm was always my goal, and I think I even did more than that, but 6.5 was always my goal. Another .5cm really isn't gonna make much of a difference anyway.

[Uppland]

Well congratulation on being finished, 6,5CM is my goal as well I think.

What does Guichet say about your pain, how does he think you'll recover?

-Also how was it staying in Milan, and how is Dr. Guichets facilities?

[YellowSpike]

Well congratulation on being finished, 6,5CM is my goal as well I think.

What does Guichet say about your pain, how does he think you'll recover?

-Also how was it staying in Milan, and how is Dr. Guichets facilities?

Thanks man. I think my gain of 6.5cm+ is pretty solid. I definitely feel taller and my family says I look a lot taller now. I've seen so many on here take so long to recover for gains over 6.5cm and it kinda freaks me out a bit.

He says my pain is normal and will go away. I was just one of the unlucky ones who had a lot of pain. It should start to improve now that clicking is done.

I did most of this in London but the facilities in both places (Milan and London) were excellent.

[Uppland]

Thanks man. I think my gain of 6.5cm+ is pretty solid. I definitely feel taller and my family says I look a lot taller now. I've seen so many on here take so long to recover for gains over 6.5cm and it kinda freaks me out a bit.
He says my pain is normal and will go away. I was just one of the unlucky ones who had a lot of pain. It should start to improve now that clicking is done.
I did most of this in London but the facilities in both places (Milan and London) were excellent.

Alright man that's good news, sounds like the worst is through. Please keep us updated on your recovery, I'm sure there are a lot of internal femur patients on here who can share what worked for them.

[YellowSpike]

Alright man that's good news, sounds like the worst is through. Please keep us updated on your recovery, I'm sure there are a lot of internal femur patients on here who can share what worked for them.

I'll definitely keep you guys posted on my recovery!

I actually did some extra clicks tonight. I have to physically return to my office second week of March, and I'd love to be off crutches by then (even if walking funny/stiffly). But I may do some light clicking for 2-3 more days max just for good measure. I noticed less pain today due to less clicks, but I do need to begin the true recovery process as soon as possible. But I'm inclined to believe I actually got around 6.7-6.8ish cm, but I'll be conservative and say 6.53 (with tonight's clicks lol).

[Taller]

Keep in mind that, because of the natural angle of the femurs, you gain less height than what you click. It's the Pythagoroean theorem in the real world essentially, lol. Look up an X-ray of the legs to see what I mean about angulation of the femurs.

[YellowSpike]

Keep in mind that, because of the natural angle of the femurs, you gain less height than what you click. It's the Pythagoroean theorem in the real world essentially, lol. Look up an X-ray of the legs to see what I mean about angulation of the femurs.

Yeah I considered this. I was bow legged (albeit slightly) below the surgery, and now I'm not. I remember before the surgery I'd look in the mirror and try to see if "correcting" the bow legs would add some height, and it did seem like it added a tiny bit. So maybe correcting my bow legs might somewhat make up for it.

Regardless, I don't want to obsess about this too much. I did this to get to 5'8" or as close to it as possible. I feel taller and people are noticing. My dad noticed at just one inch taller at the start of the process. I have a lot of other things going for me...but for me, being 166cm (even despite my success with women and career) was just unacceptable. And now I've done the best I could do and worked my ass off to correct it. It's time to move on. I don't feel like a midget anymore.

[goodlucktomylegs]

The total time to achieve your goal is 2 month.start from15 dec to 15 feb and complete 6.5 cm.Then please update in recovery phase. BEST OF LUCk

[Uppland]

Yellowspike have you asked guichet about the angle of your femurs, we recently had a topic about this where some people thought it could cause problems with your gait and put etra pressure on your knees.

Dr. Monegal said it's avoidable with a good surgeon, what does Guichet think?

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1760.0

[YellowSpike]

Yellowspike have you asked guichet about the angle of your femurs, we recently had a topic about this where some people thought it could cause problems with your gait and put etra pressure on your knees.

Dr. Monegal said it's avoidable with a good surgeon, what does Guichet think?

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1760.0

Dr. Guichet said my knee pain on my right knee was caused by a contracture (which he identified in my first consultation and said I probably shouldn't do more than 7cm max because of this), and the pain on my left knee was simply due to the muscles being stretched (and the pain on each knee did feel slightly different). He said as long as the knee cap itself isn't in pain (and it never was for me), it's not much to worry about, and will subside after clicking stops.

[Taller]

5'8 isn't short in my eyes. It's only an inch from the average male height in the United States, and is extremely common (there just as many 5'8 men as 5'10.5 men in the United States). I know many, many 5'8 men myself and it does come off as a very normal height to the point that I usually notice many other things about a 5'8 person before noticing their height.

[YellowSpike]

5'8 isn't short in my eyes. It's only an inch from the average male height in the United States, and is extremely common (there just as many 5'8 men as 5'10.5 men in the United States). I know many, many 5'8 men myself and it does come off as a very normal height to the point that I usually notice many other things about a 5'8 person before noticing their height.

Agreed completely. That's why 5'8" was always my goal. To me, 5'8" is the start of where one appears "average," even though it's technically not (especially if you're lean and somewhat built like me). I still have some duck-ass, but I'm very happy even now at 5'8". I'll do some light clicking for a few moe days for good measure, but I'm happy now.

[ItsMyLife]

Agreed completely. That's why 5'8" was always my goal. To me, 5'8" is the start of where one appears "average," even though it's technically not (especially if you're lean and somewhat built like me). I still have some duck-ass, but I'm very happy even now at 5'8". I'll do some light clicking for a few moe days for good measure, but I'm happy now.

'

I was 5'8. it is actually a pretty good height especially if you wear lifts. I wanted to do LL bec I wanted to feel tall. You will definitely feel pretty average at 5'8. If at any point, you feel short, do this experiment.

Walk into a mall and eye-ball about 100 people. I think you will find that only 60-75 people are taller than you.

At 180 cm (5'11) in Singapore, only 10-15 guys out of 100 are taller than me. I wanted to do 182 cm because statistically only 10 (or less) out of 100 would be taller than me.

So, I think if your goal is average height, you've got it. People like us are insane cos' we do LL to feel tall 

Definitely, I wish u the best in your future endeavours. I started one week earlier than you but done only 4.5 cm on my tibias! I am doing very well but the femur lengthening rate you did was probably insane, was it?

[YellowSpike]

'

I was 5'8. it is actually a pretty good height especially if you wear lifts. I wanted to do LL bec I wanted to feel tall. You will definitely feel pretty average at 5'8. If at any point, you feel short, do this experiment.

Walk into a mall and eye-ball about 100 people. I think you will find that only 60-75 people are taller than you.

At 180 cm (5'11) in Singapore, only 10-15 guys out of 100 are taller than me. I wanted to do 182 cm because statistically only 10 (or less) out of 100 would be taller than me.

So, I think if your goal is average height, you've got it. People like us are insane cos' we do LL to feel tall 

Definitely, I wish u the best in your future endeavours. I started one week earlier than you but done only 4.5 cm on my tibias! I am doing very well but the femur lengthening rate you did was probably insane, was it?

Lol well 5'8" is still somewhat short...but to me, it's not so noticeably short to the point that you stand out like a 5'5" guy would (trust me, I would know). I don't care about being tall, I just didn't want to always be the shortest guy around. I can see why some of you do LL to actually be tall though.

Thank you, I wish you the best too My rate of lengthening slowed down every few weeks, but it was still fast enough that it was very painful for my body. Now that I'm home I've sorta slacked off on all the exercises, but I've been making sure to walk as much as I can. I think I'll stop clicks in a day or two because I want to start recovering. My gain is probably more like 6.8cm or something.

[ReadRothbard]

Lol well 5'8" is still somewhat short...but to me, it's not so noticeably short to the point that you stand out like a 5'5" guy would (trust me, I would know). I don't care about being tall, I just didn't want to always be the shortest guy around. I can see why some of you do LL to actually be tall though.

Thank you, I wish you the best too My rate of lengthening slowed down every few weeks, but it was still fast enough that it was very painful for my body. Now that I'm home I've sorta slacked off on all the exercises, but I've been making sure to walk as much as I can. I think I'll stop clicks in a day or two because I want to start recovering. My gain is probably more like 6.8cm or something.

5'8 really isn't short. Even 5'7 is barely short, while 5'8 is pretty much the 35th percentile of height.

[ItsMyLife]

yellowspike, could you ask guichet about loss of height after lengthening " x " centimetres? apparently some patients on other threads (disobedient, and Sweden) lost a few cms after femur lengthening? is it due to the angulation of the femur bone? willll this happen with tibia (ive never heard of this for tibia)

cos if it is compressive loss its usually about 3- 4mm.

[YellowSpike]

yellowspike, could you ask guichet about loss of height after lengthening " x " centimetres? apparently some patients on other threads (disobedient, and Sweden) lost a few cms after femur lengthening? is it due to the angulation of the femur bone? willll this happen with tibia (ive never heard of this for tibia)

cos if it is compressive loss its usually about 3- 4mm.

I can already answer this because Dr G already told me. He said in some (not all) patients, after lengthening, you lose 20mm in height that you gained due to compression. That's the number he told me. That's partially why I clicked to 6.65cm on his file (though I still think I gained a bit more). I don't really care because 20mm is very negligible my goal was 2.5 inches (6.35cm).

[Overdozer]

When lengthening tibia, you can lose 2-5 mms. The amount of loss depends highly on the fixation stability, with externals pins often bend with time and compression happens (to some extent). In modified Ilizarov full-ring fixators with half-pins the risk is minimal due to 2 to 3 times higher fixation stabiltiy compared to classic Ilizarov full wires-only or to half-ring fixators. With internals stability should also be better, but I guess they also can bend under pressure to some extent (the nail itself or the screws).

The same can be said about femurs, expect that they're also usually angled at 10 degrees in men and 15 degrees in women. Let's say you lose 50% of the length gained in the femurs if it's angled at 45 degrees, at 10 degrees that would be if rounded 5 times less, so 10%. Out of 7 cms lengthened you should expect to lose 0.7 cm or 7mm. This is confirmed by the following study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22933497

In a normally aligned limb, intramedullary lengthening along the anatomical axis of the femur results in a lateral shift of the mechanical axis by approximately 1 mm for each 1 cm of lengthening.

[YellowSpike]

When lengthening tibia, you can lose 2-5 mms. The amount of loss depends highly on the fixation stability, with externals pins often bend with time and compression happens (to some extent). In modified Ilizarov full-ring fixators with half-pins the risk is minimal due to 2 to 3 times higher fixation stabiltiy compared to classic Ilizarov full wires-only or to half-ring fixators. With internals stability should also be better, but I guess they also can bend under pressure to some extent (the nail itself or the screws).

The same can be said about femurs, expect that they're also usually angled at 10 degrees in men and 15 degrees in women. Let's say you lose 50% of the length gained in the femurs if it's angled at 45 degrees, at 10 degrees that would be if rounded 5 times less, so 10%. Out of 7 cms lengthened you should expect to lose 0.7 cm or 7mm. This is confirmed by the following study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22933497

I'm a bit confused by this. So, if one has perfectly aligned limbs, they lose about 10% of what they lengthen due to the new angle of the femurs?

I was slightly bow legged before LL, and I'm not now. I remember looking in the mirror and "fixing" my bow legs, and it seemed to increase my height. So I'm wondering if this applies a bit less to me since I was previously bow legged.

Dr. Guichet himself said several times that we stand to lose around 20mm due to compression, and that it doesn't occur in all patients. So I'm inclined to believe him. I'll ask him about this link.
I also wonder if this applies less to weight bearing internal devices (like the Gnail) since they're stronger. You'd think they could withstand more and not compress as much.

[Time4LL]

20 mm?? That seems like a very big amount to lose.

That is almost a third of what most of us have gained in the first place.

I would like to know as well if that includes using internal devices.

[YellowSpike]

20 mm?? That seems like a very big amount to lose.

That is almost a third of what most of us have gained in the first place.

I would like to know as well if that includes using internal devices.

I'm sorry, not 20mm. I meant .2cm. So if you lengthen 6.5cm, you get 6.3cm.

[Time4LL]

Haha you had me really confused there. 20 mm would be substantial. I thought you must have mistyped.

You and I lengthened nearly the same because we are from the United States we wanted 2.5 inches. It will be interesting to see how we feel about our heights once we are back to our normal lives.

[YellowSpike]

Haha you had me really confused there. 20 mm would be substantial. I thought you must have mistyped.

You and I lengthened nearly the same because we are from the United States we wanted 2.5 inches. It will be interesting to see how we feel about our heights once we are back to our normal lives.

Well you had a taller starting height than I did, so I think you'll be set. I think I'll be happy too.

It's just frustrating that I don't know my true height/gain right now. My last X-rays on Feb 3 had me at a little over 6cm, but according to th click file, I didn't hit 6cm until almost 4 days later. So I'm wondering if I gained more than the 6.6cm the click file says I did. Plus, I still have duck ass, so I cant be properly measured yet. I just hope I'm 5'8" or very close to it. That was always my goal.

[ItsMyLife]

thanks for the correction. so 2 mm due to compressive losses when dong femurs and probably more due to angulation of the femur??

[YellowSpike]

thanks for the correction. so 2 mm due to compressive losses when dong femurs and probably more due to angulation of the femur??

Dr. G said that we might loose 2mm due to nail compression (but apparently, after 6cm, this compression is very negligible, not sure why exactly), but he didn't say anything about the angle of femurs coming into play. So that I'm still not sure about.

[ItsMyLife]

Dr. G said that we might loose 2mm due to nail compression (but apparently, after 6cm, this compression is very negligible, not sure why exactly), but he didn't say anything about the angle of femurs coming into play. So that I'm still not sure about.

Am sure it Is quite worrying to u...
Apo on the old forum lengthened and lost like at least >4-5 cm above the gains he claimed on the tibia + femur so I am quite worried...
Ie, even if radiographically you gained 6 cm it might only lead to increase in height of 4 cm? Which is what scares me. Would you ask Guichet? He does reply quite promptly to emails I hear.