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[mixivat]

Hello guys! does anyone have any news on clavicle lengthening? it would be a really helpful procedure should it be done..

[ReadRothbard]

Technically, distraction osteogenesis can be applied to any bone, but I don't know of any doctors whom regularly do it.

[mixivat]

here it was described it was done for cosmetic reasons by one doctor yet i havent got any reply from him.

[Uppland]

Yes I think it's possible and I can imagine it being relatively easy as the clavicle has less soft tisse connected to it than the femur or tibia.

Here is a study on the subject. It hasn't been done for cosmetic purposes as far as I know but apparently all patients in this study were "extremely satisfied with their results".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23482270

[ReadRothbard]

It actually kind of makes sense. Broad shoulders are considered more attractive, but that can mostly be done through just some shoulder workouts. But I suppose that lengthening the clavicle could also help.

[Uppland]

Yes if you've got a small frame there is only so much you can do. Shoulders aren't supposed to be just broad but apparently what's attractive is a certain ratio between hips and shoulders. You'll '' often hear girls talk about the "V-shape" but I've never heard anyone mention the "T-shape".

[KrP1]

Yes if you've got a small frame there is only so much you can do. Shoulders aren't supposed to be just broad but apparently what's attractive is a certain ratio between hips and shoulders. You'll '' often hear girls talk about the "V-shape" but I've never heard anyone mention the "T-shape".

clavicle lengthening will give you V shape not T shape

[ReadRothbard]

Having broad shoulders is part of having the V-shape. The second part of the formula is having big lats through heavy barbell rows or weighted pullups.

[mixivat]

i've heard of the study yes. it would be nice to be done cosmetic. not only for the broad shoulders aesthetically but also for better support of the spine and better blood circulation i suppose. the smaller the clavicle the more you have to slouch.

[mixivat]

anyone heard of any doctors performing that operation?

[hadrian]

Very interested in this.  Should I start by emailing Paley? Bump for meursault as I see he is interested in clavicle lengthening.

[NewHeights]

What's the point of this "clavicle lengthening"? Just work on them delts to get big shoulders

[hadrian]

What's the point of this "clavicle lengthening"? Just work on them delts to get big shoulders

Why don't we just wear shoe lifts and call it a day? Here is your answer to that question BTW

[Smallguy]

What's the point of this "clavicle lengthening"? Just work on them delts to get big shoulders

This is America btw. There is cosmetic surgery for just about anything. I'm done with this forum.

[hadrian]

This is America btw. There is cosmetic surgery for just about anything. I'm done with this forum.

It's a tough world out there if you're born ugly. I'm interested in clavicle lengthening so I can better pull off my leg lengthening. It's the only other long bone osteotomy  and really the only other cosmetic surgery I would be willing to undergo and take the time recovering from, because a potential gain of 3" of shoulders would be a huge difference aesthetically. These long bone surgeries make quantifiable improvements, versus a lot of facial cosmetic surgery which is oftentimes just smearing lipstick on a pig.

[Smallguy]

It's a tough world out there if you're born ugly. I'm interested in clavicle lengthening so I can better pull off my leg lengthening. It's the only other long bone osteotomy  and really the only other cosmetic surgery I would be willing to undergo and take the time recovering from, because a potential gain of 3" of shoulders would be a huge difference aesthetically. These long bone surgeries make quantifiable improvements, versus a lot of facial cosmetic surgery which is oftentimes just smearing lipstick on a pig.

Wish you all the best bro. Once you finish all your surgeries make sure you call Dr Drew at 1-855-373-7395 to share your story. Cheers.

[hadrian]

Wish you all the best bro. Once you finish all your surgeries make sure you call Dr Drew at 1-855-373-7395 to share your story. Cheers.

Let's be real here. If you're willing to undergo the most serious cosmetic procedure there is you shouldnt have some sort of superiority complex towards others who go through these milder surgeries. While there are a lot of average looking people who clearly have BDD who cut up and ruin their faces, there are even more butt ugly people who do the same. And can you really blame the latter group? If ugly people fully grasped the severity of their plight with no outlet for hope like plastic surgery or the gym, they would probably become deranged.

 I'm not interested in plastic surgery but then again I was lucky enough to be born with a non-deformed face with no discernable yet fixable flaws.

[Smallguy]

Let's be real here. If you're willing to undergo the most serious cosmetic procedure there is you shouldnt have some sort of superiority complex towards others who go through these milder surgeries. While there are a lot of average looking people who clearly have BDD who cut up and ruin their faces, there are even more butt ugly people who do the same. And can you really blame the latter group? If ugly people fully grasped the severity of their plight with no outlet for hope like plastic surgery or the gym, they would probably become deranged.

 I'm not interested in plastic surgery but then again I was lucky enough to be born with a non-deformed face with no discernable yet fixable flaws.

Dude, you need to tone down. No need to file a bunch of insults. This is not the first time you became argumentative out of nowhere and put off veteran.

Ugly face? Is that the best you have against me? You're obviously not bright enough to get my joke. At least my insecurity is not turning me into a woman. Like I said, you can do whatever you want. No one is stopping you. But as you chose to share your surgery online your idea is subject to public's opinion. Don't be overly sensitive about it and get rude. Cheers.

[NewHeights]

I feel that considering clavicle lengthening for cosmetic reasons is a tell tale sign of going down the BDD path (height neurosis's ugly cousin). As unhealthy as height neurosis is for our mental status, BDD much worse.

What's next, penis augmentation, humerus lengthening, spinal elongation surgery, botox, facial surgery...?

[hadrian]

Dude, you need to tone down. No need to file a bunch of insults. This is not the first time you became argumentative out of nowhere and put off veteran.

Ugly face? Is that the best you have against me? You're obviously not bright enough to get my joke. At least my insecurity is not turning me into a woman. Like I said, you can do whatever you want. No one is stopping you. But as you chose to share your surgery online your idea is subject to public's opinion. Don't be overly sensitive about it and get rude. Cheers.

Don't act all innocent and pretend it was a harmless joke when you were actually disparaging me. It appears you are the one who has has trouble grasping things if you thought I called you ugly in my last post. Reread it please. I know you have a tendency to mix up information from my posts because you assumed I was 5'11" yesterday even though I never claimed anything of the sort. I have a feeling you cant explain to me where you got your superiority complex from. Is it just a defense mechanism? "Well, I did do X, but at least i'm not as bad as the people who do Y."


If you think i'm going to tolerate ignorance just because you're a veteran you're in for a long road ahead.

[hadrian]

I feel that considering clavicle lengthening for cosmetic reasons is a tell tale sign of going down the BDD path (height neurosis's ugly cousin). As unhealthy as height neurosis is for our mental status, BDD much worse.

What's next, penis augmentation, humerus lengthening, spinal elongation surgery, botox, facial surgery...?

Clavicle and Humerus lengthening may very well be essential for some of us who don't want to look outrageously disproportionate after LL, like LittleWhiteMan in particular. Also some of those things listed are perfectly reasonable in the correct circumstance; are you really going to expect a man to 'man up' and 'deal with it' if he's packing a 2"?

[NewHeights]

Why don't we just wear shoe lifts and call it a day? Here is your answer to that question BTW

I think the guy in the first pic does too much arm work and not enough shoulder work, which exaggerate his relatively narrow shoulders. I'm pretty sure he could get much bigger shoulders if he wanted to. Also, I would rather have the third guy's physique than the second guy's.

What woman would turn down the third guy's physique even though his clavicle is not as long as the second guy's?

[NewHeights]

Clavicle and Humerus lengthening may very well be essential for not looking outrageously disproportionate after LL, like LittleWhiteMan in particular. Also some of those things listed are perfectly reasonable in the correct circumstance; are you really going to expect a man to 'man up' and 'deal with it' if he's packing a 2"?

You still haven't adequately answered my question about doing shoulder work at the gym (which would have the effect of wider shoulders) and I think your comparison of building shoulder muscles to wearing lifts is not logical

[hadrian]

You still haven't adequately answered my question about doing shoulder work at the gym (which would have the effect of wider shoulders) and I think your comparison of building shoulder muscles to wearing lifts is not logical

The effect of building faux large shoulders via muscles is inferior to having legitimately large shoulders via clavicle length, both functionally and aesthetically. Dont assume you are fooling anyone by pumping up your shouder muscles. Gaining shoulder mass may very well be enough for your average guy to look proportionate after LL, but there are some whose clavicles are too small to be workable.





If your clavicles are small enough, no amount of working out will give you a v taper or wide shoulders. Refer to this picture for proof.





The deltoids are also one of the most androgenic muscles in the body and thus have the most androgen receptors. If you simply don't have the delt genetics they will look deflated if you aren't roiding.

[hadrian]

I think the guy in the first pic does too much arm work and not enough shoulder work, which exaggerate his relatively narrow shoulders. I'm pretty sure he could get much bigger shoulders if he wanted to. Also, I would rather have the third guy's physique than the second guy's.

What woman would turn down the third guy's physique even though his clavicle is not as long as the second guy's?

You honestly believe the guy on the left isn't working out enough? I can guarantee the guy on the right does less shoulder work than him.

I would rather have the third guy's physique than the second guy's.

What woman would turn down the third guy's physique even though his clavicle is not as long as the second guy's?

[KiloKAHN]

One thing that I'd be concerned about for clavicle lengthening is doctor experience. There would be even less studies out there about long term effects of clavicle lengthening then there are for leg lengthening. I'm not sure even Dr Paley lengthens them.

[Smallguy]

Don't act all innocent and pretend it was a harmless joke when you were actually disparaging me. It appears you are the one who has has trouble grasping things if you thought I called you ugly in my last post. Reread it please. I know you have a tendency to mix up information from my posts because you assumed I was 5'11" yesterday even though I never claimed anything of the sort. I have a feeling you cant explain to me where you got your superiority complex from. Is it just a defense mechanism? "Well, I did do X, but at least i'm not as bad as the people who do Y."


If you think i'm going to tolerate ignorance just because you're a veteran you're in for a long road ahead.

Me feeling superior? Disparaging you? Your self-esteem seems to be at an all time low.

I was referring to the other two people who wrote diary as veteran. I wouldn't be one as I no longer contribute to this forum. I'm not interested in quarrelling with you. If you wish to say something further to me, please use PM. Cheers.

[Uppland]

One thing that I'd be concerned about for clavicle lengthening is doctor experience. There would be even less studies out there about long term effects of clavicle lengthening then there are for leg lengthening. I'm not sure even Dr Paley lengthens them.

I would be very concerned as well, there is only one report on clavicle lengthening via a distraction device. It has been done for medical reasons and seemed to be a success, what speaks for lengthening the clavicle is that there doesn't seem to be much soft tissue attached to it.

As we all know, when lengthening the bone itself really isn't the bigger problem but rather the muscles, nerves and tendons around it. When lengthening the clavicle this could be much less of a problem, however like KiloKahn says the main issue is that it just hasn't been done cosmetically before -at least not that I know of.

Longer clavicles would give two important benefits for us LL patients it would:

-Improve proportions drastically as it makes our wingspans fit our new height and accentuates our torsos rather than our lengthened legs.
-Improve balance by making us broader, this is important now that we will become taller.

In the study average length gained was 31mm but since he patients had abnormally short clavicles to begin with this represented an increase of about 25% on average. Assuming we cosmetic patients are a bit more conservative we migt aim for a 10% increase which in my case would be around 4-5CM. That may not sound as much but when it comes to shoulder width it will be a massive difference.

I'd be very interested to learn more about this, especially since I myself could benefit greatly from broader shoulders, if anyone is in contact with a trustworthy surgeon know that it would be greatly appreciated if you ask him about it.

[Sean Connery]

How would lengthening the clavicle be able to make your shoulders wider? Taking a look at this x-ray here, it looks like your clavicle would hit the part that juts out of the scapula and would be prevent it from lengthening past that point:

[Uppland]

Yes I believe longer clavicles will also mean longer shoulders, but I'm no surgeon.

[meursault]

How would lengthening the clavicle be able to make your shoulders wider? Taking a look at this x-ray here, it looks like your clavicle would hit the part that juts out of the scapula and would be prevent it from lengthening past that point:

That's the acromioclavicular joint. The clavicle is also attached to the scapula by the coracoclavicular ligament. This would be like saying "how would lengthening your legs make your legs wider, wouldn't your bones hit each other/your knee", because they're interconnected by joints and ligaments (although the bone structure of the shoulders is far more complex than those of the knees/legs, this metaphor still applies).

According to this one study on distraction of the clavicle, clavicular lengthening shows extreme potential for cosmetic purposes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23482270

The paranoia/doubt toward clavicle lengthening by some members (more because of their own disapproval and biases toward the surgery they deem "useless" rather than geniune concern and interest- just like non-LLers and LL) in this thread is silly. Any bone can be distracted, the question is how effective it is. Wide shoulders are an extremely masculine and attractive trait. Pumping the weights will only get you so far, as hadrian said. It won't change your bones and narrow clavicles with big deltoid muscles just looks 'off' compared to naturally wide shoulders.

Women want broad shouldered men, just like they want tall men. So much so, in fact, that their standards and ideals are often inhumanly unrealistic when you subject them to analysis (far more so than height even, we're talking more than two standard deviations from the mean here, it would be like an average woman's ideal height in a man being something that's absurdly, repulsively tall by the standards of most of the posters on LL Forum). Shoulder breadth is one of the most sexually dimorphic traits after all, and it's not how many weights you pump, it's ironclad in your bones:

Nonetheless, even the tallest, broadest-shouldered and best-endowed digital hunks that the researchers generated fell short of perfection. "The optimum values appear to lie outside the tested range," they note, adding that the "maxima are more than two standard deviations from the population mean for each trait." That means that, for each trait, fewer than 2.5% of the men whom women encounter in the real world will be as generously proportioned as they might hope. Men with perfect scores in all three traits will be rarer than hen's teeth.

http://www.businessinsider.com/female-standards-of-male-attractiveness-are-way-unrealistic-2013-4