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[programdude]

I thought maximum safe limit was 12cm, 5cm tibia external and 7cm femur internal, arent these considered safe and good for recovery?

8 is considered fine for femur internal.

[TRS]

According to Dr.Dror Paley:
What is the safe amount that can be lengthened and why can more length not be done?
The limits of lengthening are the soft tissues. The risk of complications from lengthening increase with increased length. Up to 5cms is a low risk lengthening. Between 5-8cms is medium risk and over 8cms is high risk. For example to achieve 10cms of lengthening it is much safer to lengthen the femur and tibia each by 5cms than to lengthen either bone by 10cms.
http://www.paleyinstitute.org/?q=node/47

Another article:
Effects of bone lengthening on surrounding tissues
Gradual bone lengthening has a negative impact on the surrounding muscles through stretch, impalement by pins and wires, pain and inflammation. The speed of the gain in length during callotasis with a 1-mm/day rate is about four to eight times faster than during the adolescent growth spurt with its temporary muscle shortenings [8]. No wonder that the clinical challenges of muscle distraction and subsequent decrease of adjacent joint range of motion go in parallel with the amount of lengthening. This is reflected by histological changes after lengthening of more than 30 % of its original length [22, 116–119], as the whole muscle from origin to insertion is stretched [81]. The elastic limit of stretched muscles (strength–strain curve) is 10–15 % of the length at rest. Excessive stretch leads to plastic deformation and subsequent contractures, which commonly affect muscles spanning two joints (rectus femoris, hamstrings). There are only few data about the loss of muscle power during the distraction–consolidation process and the speed and amount of recovery thereafter. There is a small residual decrease in muscle strength and power after surgical lengthening without any impact on the activities of daily living [120]. Pre-operative muscle training as a preventive measure and a post-operative intense rehabilitation programme including continuous passive motion, extension splint, strengthening and stretching exercises, as well as proprioceptive training, are mandatory until the pre-operative level is reached [66]. Nerves and vessels adapt in length during the distraction process and recover from temporary degenerative changes within 2 months after the halting of distraction [104]. Excessive gradual (>20–30 %) or acute distraction (>15 %) may both lead to partial or complete loss of nerve potentials [121, 122].http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364349/

Personally, I would stay below 20% of the original bone length and listen to Paley by not exceeding 8cm per segment!

[Uppland]

According to Dr.Dror Paley:
What is the safe amount that can be lengthened and why can more length not be done?
The limits of lengthening are the soft tissues. The risk of complications from lengthening increase with increased length. Up to 5cms is a low risk lengthening. Between 5-8cms is medium risk and over 8cms is high risk. For example to achieve 10cms of lengthening it is much safer to lengthen the femur and tibia each by 5cms than to lengthen either bone by 10cms.
http://www.paleyinstitute.org/?q=node/47

Another article:
Effects of bone lengthening on surrounding tissues
Gradual bone lengthening has a negative impact on the surrounding muscles through stretch, impalement by pins and wires, pain and inflammation. The speed of the gain in length during callotasis with a 1-mm/day rate is about four to eight times faster than during the adolescent growth spurt with its temporary muscle shortenings [8]. No wonder that the clinical challenges of muscle distraction and subsequent decrease of adjacent joint range of motion go in parallel with the amount of lengthening. This is reflected by histological changes after lengthening of more than 30 % of its original length [22, 116–119], as the whole muscle from origin to insertion is stretched [81]. The elastic limit of stretched muscles (strength–strain curve) is 10–15 % of the length at rest. Excessive stretch leads to plastic deformation and subsequent contractures, which commonly affect muscles spanning two joints (rectus femoris, hamstrings). There are only few data about the loss of muscle power during the distraction–consolidation process and the speed and amount of recovery thereafter. There is a small residual decrease in muscle strength and power after surgical lengthening without any impact on the activities of daily living [120]. Pre-operative muscle training as a preventive measure and a post-operative intense rehabilitation programme including continuous passive motion, extension splint, strengthening and stretching exercises, as well as proprioceptive training, are mandatory until the pre-operative level is reached [66]. Nerves and vessels adapt in length during the distraction process and recover from temporary degenerative changes within 2 months after the halting of distraction [104]. Excessive gradual (>20–30 %) or acute distraction (>15 %) may both lead to partial or complete loss of nerve potentials [121, 122].http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364349/

Personally, I would stay below 20% of the original bone length and listen to Paley by not exceeding 8cm per segment!

Very interesting info this is exactly what we need on this forum -the more we know the better decisions we can make. We can never have too much info thanks TheRisingShorty.

Does this mean that lenghtening less than 15% should technically be perfectly able to recover completely? I.e the body will always be changed but the muscles won't be weaker than before. One of my hobbies is hiking in the mountains, I was under the impression I might have to give that up but if I stay conservative that may not be the case`?

[endomorphisme]

i'm 183 cm at night i think 6 cm in tibia is the best option for me

[680]

i'm 183 cm at night i think 6 cm in tibia is the best option for me

What are your wingspan and sitting height?

[Uppland]

i'm 183 cm at night i think 6 cm in tibia is the best option for me

What is the average where you live?

Do you feel short enough at 183CM to warrant a brutal surgery like this?

Never mind you wingspan, what is your arm lenght?

[endomorphisme]

i'm well built.My only concern is recovery and long term risks.But overall, i don't think 6 or, say 5 cm not to cross the safe limit, won't affect my proportion.What matters is recovery.

[endomorphisme]

What is the average where you live?

Do you feel short enough at 183CM to warrant a brutal surgery like this?

Never mind you wingspan, what is your arm lenght?

i live in France, Paris

[Uppland]

i live in France, Paris

I didn't think the french were very tall, is 183CM really that short among other parisians?

[endomorphisme]

i don't know, but i feel short a lot

[Uppland]

Well that's what counts. You're aiming for 187-188 then?

[endomorphisme]

atleast 185 cm, but 188 cm is my ultimate goal, yes.

[680]

i'm well built.My only concern is recovery and long term risks.But overall, i don't think 6 or, say 5 cm not to cross the safe limit, won't affect my proportion.What matters is recovery.

You never know, besides it will be good to have some stats from people that are at heights that other members aim for. I am sure there are many guys here that would like to be 6'0" and compare wingspans,sitting heights,arm lengths,leg lengths and etc with you.

[goodlucktomylegs]

You can wear lift for 2 inches. Its better if your goal is only 185 .

[680]

You can wear lift for 2 inches. Its better if your goal is only 185 .

He want's to do one surgery and he said that 185 is the minimum that he will lengthen, He is aiming for 188cm, 5cm is a safe gain. And as far as i know he wants to do tibia, Which can't handle more than 5-6cm very good.

[endomorphisme]

You never know, besides it will be good to have some stats from people that are at heights that other members aim for. I am sure there are many guys here that would like to be 6'0" and compare wingspans,sitting heights,arm lengths,leg lengths and etc with you.

i'm sorry but height is the only thing i measured.
I don't know how to measure them, i can't ask my parents or my friends :/
Or i could but the measurements will be very approximate

[ReadRothbard]

Are you morbidly obese or something?
That's almost 58% SHR (57.98816568047337%) Seems almost unhealthy.

No, I just have a naturally very long torso. I measured it out at about 20 inches long (compared to the average of 17).

[ReadRothbard]

According to Dr.Dror Paley:
What is the safe amount that can be lengthened and why can more length not be done?
The limits of lengthening are the soft tissues. The risk of complications from lengthening increase with increased length. Up to 5cms is a low risk lengthening. Between 5-8cms is medium risk and over 8cms is high risk. For example to achieve 10cms of lengthening it is much safer to lengthen the femur and tibia each by 5cms than to lengthen either bone by 10cms.
http://www.paleyinstitute.org/?q=node/47

Another article:
Effects of bone lengthening on surrounding tissues
Gradual bone lengthening has a negative impact on the surrounding muscles through stretch, impalement by pins and wires, pain and inflammation. The speed of the gain in length during callotasis with a 1-mm/day rate is about four to eight times faster than during the adolescent growth spurt with its temporary muscle shortenings [8]. No wonder that the clinical challenges of muscle distraction and subsequent decrease of adjacent joint range of motion go in parallel with the amount of lengthening. This is reflected by histological changes after lengthening of more than 30 % of its original length [22, 116–119], as the whole muscle from origin to insertion is stretched [81]. The elastic limit of stretched muscles (strength–strain curve) is 10–15 % of the length at rest. Excessive stretch leads to plastic deformation and subsequent contractures, which commonly affect muscles spanning two joints (rectus femoris, hamstrings). There are only few data about the loss of muscle power during the distraction–consolidation process and the speed and amount of recovery thereafter. There is a small residual decrease in muscle strength and power after surgical lengthening without any impact on the activities of daily living [120]. Pre-operative muscle training as a preventive measure and a post-operative intense rehabilitation programme including continuous passive motion, extension splint, strengthening and stretching exercises, as well as proprioceptive training, are mandatory until the pre-operative level is reached [66]. Nerves and vessels adapt in length during the distraction process and recover from temporary degenerative changes within 2 months after the halting of distraction [104]. Excessive gradual (>20–30 %) or acute distraction (>15 %) may both lead to partial or complete loss of nerve potentials [121, 122].http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364349/

Personally, I would stay below 20% of the original bone length and listen to Paley by not exceeding 8cm per segment!

That seems pretty much like what I said. He also states that about 7 cm for the tibias and 8 cm for the femurs is about the max most people can safely do to eventually fully-regain athletic abilities.

[GeTs]

That seems pretty much like what I said. He also states that about 7 cm for the tibias and 8 cm for the femurs is about the max most people can safely do to eventually fully-regain athletic abilities.

he never said fully, just functions that will allow u to live a normal life

[goodlucktomylegs]

For me best model is Hugh Jackman 188 cm with that fit body
Second Ideal that can be realistic is Jim Carrey and Obama 185 cm.

I'm asian morning time height=177.5  /  day time height around 176.5 and bed time height 175.5
let say I'm 176.5       
66kg
If i went under Paley or Guichet LL, I'd lengthen 6.5-8 cm.
that =  183 min and 184.5 max day time
It is also great number for Asian
Then i will wear lift for 6 cm  again
=189/190.5 is like asian Model

[Uppland]

For me best model is Hugh Jackman 188 cm with that fit body
Second Ideal that can be realistic is Jim Carrey and Obama 185 cm.

I'm asian morning time height=177.5  /  day time height around 176.5 and bed time height 175.5
let say I'm 176.5       
66kg
If i went under Paley or Guichet LL, I'd lengthen 6.5-8 cm.
that =  183 min and 184.5 max day time
It is also great number for Asian
Then i will wear lift for 6 cm  again
=189/190.5 is like asian Model

Jackman is handsome but has such narrow shoulders no? My Ideal body type is Joe Manganiello. He's 195-196CM with broad shoulders, a narrow waist and large frame which allows him to carry his tall height. If you're built like that I'd say 195-200CM can look extremely good but of course alot of people that tall just look lanky or "big" without being handsome.

[endomorphisme]

asian are very short, the only time when i feel tall is when i'm with asian.
you really say bull s  goodlucktomylegs you country of manlets may just average 165 cm

[Uppland]

asian are very short, the only time when i feel tall is when i'm with asian.
you really say bulls**ts  goodlucktomylegs you country of manlets may just average 165 cm

Certain parts of china is quite tall and south koreans are reasonably tall as well -only slightly shorter than englishmen. Also remember that height is very highly valued in asia for whatever reason. In china certain jobs have height requirements and in south korea there is a strong cultural bias towards taller men.

[123]

asian are very short, the only time when i feel tall is when i'm with asian.
you really say bulls**ts  goodlucktomylegs you country of manlets may just average 165 cm

You're such a hypocrite. You're even taller than him and you want to do LL and also you live in France if I'm not mistaken, people aren't really tall there.

 

[endomorphisme]

You're such a hypocrite. You're even taller than him and you want to do LL and also you live in France if I'm not mistaken, people aren't really tall there.

 

people aren't tall south people and immigrant from asia and maghreb bring the average down.
In paris and in the north the average is 181 cm according to my doctor, so 183 cm without immigrants maybe 184 cm

[123]

people aren't tall south people and immigrant from asia and maghreb bring the average down.
In paris and in the north the average is 181 cm according to my doctor, so 183 cm without immigrants maybe 184 cm

Bull . Immigrants don't bring the average down, the short arabs maybe bring it down a bit but at the same time the black africans boost the average height by a lot. I was for a few months in Paris, in the north to be accurate, so I know you are talking bull . Just say that you want to be taller, nothing wrong with that, don't lie to try to legitimize your wish for LL. 

[goodlucktomylegs]

No now its up on you come from with region
166 is no more
Average in capital city now 175-180 its not same as in up country
Also Korea move averag t0 177-182 in capital city
Asian model now lover height up to 182 and average now 185
Asian grow bigger every year
Not like vietnamese or indonesian that still 165-170

[endomorphisme]

Bulls**t. Immigrants don't bring the average down, the short arabs maybe bring it down a bit but at the same time the black africans boost the average height by a lot. I was for a few months in Paris, in the north to be accurate, so I know you are talking bulls**t. Just say that you want to be taller, nothing wrong with that, don't lie to try to legitimize your wish for LL. 

you never went, in paris, you don't even know what you are talking about, you're inventing stories just to convince yourself we are short.
In paris about 40 % of people have non european backgroung, most come from africa, and asia.
Arabs are quite short, but not that short, especially youngs
Asian are short, there is a chinese district, i'm one of the tallest when i go there
Black people don't "boost" the average, but they are very close in height.

Just say that you want to be taller, nothing wrong with that, don't lie to try to legitimize your wish for LL.

If i felt normal, why would i do LL?
I'm below average, that's a good reason to it

[KiloKAHN]

You'd think each person here was a babycorn in a field full of asparagus 

[goodlucktomylegs]

In maybe 10 years from now
Im certain sure that average in Bejing will be 179-181
And koreans in seoul  average will  little bit taller 180-182
Becasue there Value and richer  .
They can buy good food with nutrient to serve their meeds and heightism value

[Uppland]

Where will you be when height neurosis strikes?

It is after all a psychological issue endomorphisme isn't technically short but he feels that way and that's what is really important. A short man that has no problem with being short shouldn't get LL but a average man that can't get over his height even though he tries is a candidate.

Also keep inmind average height doesn't mean it's the most common height. For all we know most white parisians may be 183-4CM only the overall average is shorter.