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[680]

He's not wrong. People who suffer from short height have real problems and the worst part is to wait until you get LL done, so you can enjoy life.

I'm not talking about guys who are average and claim to have some bulls**t height neurosis, which doesn't even exist, they just use is it as an excuse to legitimate that they just want to be taller.

So having money makes it a lot easier and being poor and doing LL is also dumb. If you are already poor how are you going to survive without working a whole year? And you will be even poorer after LL and you won't be even able to do physical work for more than a year.

Being poor and short sucks I agree with that, but risking your health for being not so short, poor and a cripple is just dumb.

This is just my opinion though, doesn't mean I'm right...

Maybe, But there are more and more people that are taller than me here at 179-185.5cm, I think that for us is more like something that we want rather than something that we truly need. Height neurosis can be real at any height depending on your surroundings, But to claim that you've experienced height discrimination at 185.5 or at any height that is above average is almost insane. Its really hard to decide who is sane and who is insane on the internet even for a legitimate psychologist 

If you're poor and above or equal to the average height of your region and you get a loan in order to do LL, Then there might be something wrong with you.

This isn't something that you decide to do in a heartbeat. You need to save up, Plan, Study proportions, And take into account many other things, It doesn't happen overnight.

It is true that shorter people have more issues regarding height, They feel pressured by this new retarded shallow and artificial society. They might be more affected by bb and height neurosis.

[programdude]

stop talking bulls**t or convincing urself

What? I'm not convincing myself of anything, I have zero vested interest on whether my observations accurate.

I pretty thoroughly backed up my observations, and I am not saying its a universal rule. I've read these forums and met other LL patients- Including sane and down to earth ones who went to india and know of less than together people who went to Paley, so I'm not demonizing anyone inherently for what dr. they go to- Only that I suspect I didn't meet the more mental patients because I went to Paley, despite seeing people on forums on this subject that aren't mentally all there.

[programdude]

From what you have said, wouldn't it mean that people who undergo LL with Dr.Paley be more "crazy" because it would've taken them many years to save up for Paley, adding years of frustration together with the existing height neurosis? We shouldn't ignore the fact people can also have mental issues regardless of whether they can afford expensive doctors.
On the contrary, people who go to cheaper doctors fix their problem much earlier rather than waiting to save up for Paley, Guichet,Rozbruch etc....Some people that can afford top end doctors may end up having surgery with cheaper alternatives in order to save money.
If you read some of the patient diaries from top end doctors, I'm pretty sure you will be able to tell how insane they are lol. Therefore I simply don't believe that crazy people are most likely going to end up with cheaper doctors.

The key point you are missing is that a lot of the people who go to Paley DONT need to save at all. They have the money for the surgery and then some. I am reasonably well off and was able to afford surgery as soon as I decided to have it done, while having some savings left, but suspect I was one of the least wealthy of the patients I met, with the operation being a negligible monetary decision for them. Many patients were being paid for by their parents so that isn't even a concern to them. Someone pursuing LL under that kind of circumstance is obviously much more likely to be in a good state of mind than the person stressing for months/years to make it happen in a different country.

[Dick Dastardly]

I think those who have the money to do this right away can also be at a disadvantage. One good thing about having to save the money is that you're forced to take the time and work hard saving for the operation, which will allow more time for vigorous research. On the other hand you can have the money right away to go to a top doctor just like that which isn't always a good thing. What about the wealthy ones who barely did any research and wound up hating the whole process later? Doesn't Leechlet regret what he did?

[GeTs]

I think those who have the money to do this right away can also be at a disadvantage. One good thing about having to save the money is that you're forced to take the time and work hard saving for the operation, which will allow more time for vigorous research. On the other hand you can have the money right away to go to a top doctor just like that which isn't always a good thing. What about the wealthy ones who barely did any research and wound up hating the whole process later? Doesn't Leechlet regret what he did?

don't use a spoilt child as an example, he was too young to understand its consequences or the amount of energy required, he gave up before even starting the elongation

[RGKEY]

embrace your freakiness if you can't change it!!

being short might be a problem for some and for others it might not. The truth of this matter is that the real problem about height is within our mind. Yes, you might be discriminated, left over, not get that girl you want, not be able to get that job you want, etc... but lets face it, being short or even super short (male below 150cms) in compare to other problems is insignificant.

anyone can make a case that they have a real problem, ANYONE!!!

I deal with very wealthy people in my job and trust me to many of them they have a real problem in their mind just like all of us with short stature. So again most of these type of problems are within our head. Even a rich, tall, handsome man might feel like he has real problems.

For some:

being 140cms is a problem, for some being 165cms, or even 170cms is a problem. For others, having cancer is a problem, HIV, not having money for food or rent, or having love issues, lossing a leg, etc. For some, not be able to go to a nice vacation, firing their house keeper and now the wife must do the cleaning at home might be a real problem. Again, anyone can make a case for having a REAL PROBLEM! all depends on what context. So if you think your problems, or your current situation sucks ass, well re-think my friend. Im sure some people will be completely happy to be YOU!

lol now attack me:)))



to all people who think they have a problem, including me of course:))

[Dick Dastardly]

You're so edgy and cool, RGKEY.

[RGKEY]

You're so edgy and cool, RGKEY.

lol thanx haha!) just saying what's inside of me, and always searching for the truth of life!)

[TRS]

What? I'm not convincing myself of anything, I have zero vested interest on whether my observations accurate.

I pretty thoroughly backed up my observations, and I am not saying its a universal rule. I've read these forums and met other LL patients- Including sane and down to earth ones who went to india and know of less than together people who went to Paley, so I'm not demonizing anyone inherently for what dr. they go to- Only that I suspect I didn't meet the more mental patients because I went to Paley, despite seeing people on forums on this subject that aren't mentally all there.

What you may have seen in other patients may not mirror their true state of mind, just like the saying "you cannot judge a book by its cover". It's unfair to base your conclusion by only observing a small portion of Paley patients.

The key point you are missing is that a lot of the people who go to Paley DONT need to save at all. They have the money for the surgery and then some.

A person that develops height neurosis overnight and/or decides to undergo LL in several days or even months seems pretty crazy to me, regardless of their financial circumstances. I reckon that a sane person would take year(s) to fully research LL and decide whether LL would truly benefit them in the long run before sacrificing their resources and wellbeing.

Someone who either knows they are stuck at a height they find undesirable for life, or who has to wait awhile to fix it and obsesses over it in the meantime before going to a doctor they know is not ideal, and potentially being anxious about complications of their decision is likelier to be A. More strung out/stressed B. More obsessed with the issue of height C. More bitter about the whole situation since it was much harder for them to resolve.

We must remember that individuals react differently. A person who is long suffering because of their height and lack of resources may end up becoming a stronger and sane person during LL compared to a person who is well off and jumps straight in LL without having any knowledge of what to expect and then end up struggling with severe depression and/or other mental issues.
The key issue is individual variation and financial circumstances does not indicate how a person would react to LL or how crazy they're.

I think those who have the money to do this right away can also be at a disadvantage. One good thing about having to save the money is that you're forced to take the time and work hard saving for the operation, which will allow more time for vigorous research. On the other hand you can have the money right away to go to a top doctor just like that which isn't always a good thing. What about the wealthy ones who barely did any research and wound up hating the whole process later?

I agree with you! It's very dangerous and insane to jump straight into LL within days or even months. People should research LL for atleast a year and introspect much about whether LL will benefit them.
Personally, I'm glad that I waited 5 years since I couldn't afford any LL doctors when I first found out about LL during my teenage years. But it gave me the opportunity to do thorough research on LL and also gave me the strength to face and deal with society while being 5'3 without becoming crazy or indulging in self destructive behaviours.
My top doctor choices for my femurs were Dr.Paley and Dr.Rozbruch. I would've been able to afford Dr.Paley next year. But I'm so glad that I waited it out and found Dr.Birkholtz (thanks to Kilokahn & LL Forum ) and saved $50000+. I personally believe that he did a equally good job (or perhaps better) as Dr.Paley or Dr.Rozbruch.     

[Ajax2thousand20]

I think there's lots of people of various heights who want to be taller. Some are mental others just have a desire. I say only do ll if you want to be taller on a 10/10 scale otherwise, embrace other aspects of your life.

[ReadRothbard]

Oh and there's the "I lost respect for all women" thread on the old forum. It's a madhouse I'm tellin' ya.

It absolutely is, man.

[programdude]

Well rising, if someone who quickly decides to do LL is insane, then that would make me crazy.

I'll agree everyone who does this is crazy in a certain way, but on the other hand I tackled everything in as logical and low risk a way as possible- without dilly dallying years of my prime away.

And I don't believe you can develop heigh neurosis totally overnight- but you can certainly develop it internally and only slowly have it come to the surface when you aren't a dwarf but also aren't tall. I think a lot of my life to some extent I had it and it affected me, but only in recent times, around 4-6 months pre surgery was it significant and with me clearly identifying the source.

Anyways again, I was just sharing my observation and a theory- not denouncing the poor.

[RGKEY]

Every one who does this it's completely crazy!

[KiloKAHN]

You do have to have a certain level of craziness to do this cosmetically. I've always been an adrenaline junkie so I think that helped with having the courage to do this.

[programdude]

You definitely need to be crazy- but nothings crazier than leading a life you aren't content with.

[ReadRothbard]

Agreed.

[RGKEY]

all of us are freaks or freakurious:p lol

[ReadRothbard]

all of us are freaks or freakurious:p lol

Especially you, man. Staying in frames for ten months has to be absolutely mind-numbing.

[RGKEY]

Especially you, man. Staying in frames for ten months has to be absolutely mind-numbing.

no man, im out of my freaking mind! no psychologist or psychiatric can help lol

[Smallguy]

no man, im out of my freaking mind! no psychologist or psychiatric can help lol

Although I agree that there is some nutcase out there.

However, I believe that in your case, it's pure courage. It takes a lot of courage to try and be different. A lot of people just take life for whatever it is and just go to forum and whine and complain. But to act on your problem and change your life, that is courage.

[RGKEY]

Although I agree that there is some nutcase out there.

However, I believe that in your case, it's pure courage. It takes a lot of courage to try and be different. A lot of people just take life for whatever it is and just go to forum and whine and complain. But to act on your problem and change your life, that is courage.

hahaha,,,, yeah the ones that come to the forums to whine and complain i call them freakurious lol

[mrtall]

Yeah I guess your right. But I'm still gonna aim for 6'3" in 2016. I'm gonna pay credit card debt and do a consultation with Salameh in 2015 and If all works out, I'll lengthen in Q1 or Q2 of '16.

haha, hopefully we'll both be 6'3 range then. We should go for a celebratory drink if we survive.

[LittleWhiteMan]

The desire for being taller isn't a mental problem, just saying. I meant ill freaks by those who were usually insulting people around here for no reason, talking about weird ratios and stuff, or simply saying "proportions?? fk em!!! I am 4'3" and I am aiming to be (ex.) 8'3" tall!!!". I have seen a lot of guys way too crazy around here who either take things way tooo seriously or just do things without even thinking and considering the risks. If you are 5'5" and are opting to go for 5'10" then go ahead, nobody is stopping you. Just be concerned about proportions and stuff like that. Now, some guys do get mad when you talk them about proportions or simply are not concerned about it, that is what I mean.

[TomD]

I am in my 40s which isnt unheard of but is fairly rare on these boards. Overwhelmingly you guys are in  your twenties. I sure wish this was avail in my 20s . Even if it was in some form, we didnt have the internet to get the information that it was even possible to do in the first place.

I am 5ft7, but  you guys who are 6ft who pine to become 6ft 3 or whatnot is cool by me. I realize that height dysphoria or whatever they call it is dependent upon the person, and not the height.

However, I will say that  paying all this money, taking time off, getting your legs busted and going through months of rehab to be 6ft 3 instead of 6ft doesnt seem worth it to me. You are already tall enough whereas your society does not judge you. In fact you are already reaping the benefits of your height. However, its your call and if you go for it, I stand behind your decision.

Just my .02

As far as how much you lengthen goes, I do not see the benefit of being 2-3 inches taller considering the pain, effort, money and risks we take.  I just dont. Some of you might and I stand behind your desire as well.

 I want  14 cm . Basically the safest limit we can do without risking complications. Maybe even only 6cm per segment but 7 is not unreasonable. This amount of height will make a tremendous amount of difference to me and well worth the 1 1/2 to 2 years its going to take.

14 cm wont make my proportions look way out of whack. My legs might look a tad too big but again I have very short legs for my body so I caught a break there. My torso fits a larger man.

Everyone has their own goals and dreams. Who are we to scold them and say its 'wrong'? As long as we are informed of the consequences and are prepared to live with them, there is no right or wrong choice.

[RGKEY]

freaks!

[LittleWhiteMan]

You are around my dad's height. I would recommend using lifts and getting a little bit bulked up. He seems like 5'11" with lifts and bulked up.

I am in my 40s which isnt unheard of but is fairly rare on these boards. Overwhelmingly you guys are in  your twenties. I sure wish this was avail in my 20s . Even if it was in some form, we didnt have the internet to get the information that it was even possible to do in the first place.

I am 5ft7, but  you guys who are 6ft who pine to become 6ft 3 or whatnot is cool by me. I realize that height dysphoria or whatever they call it is dependent upon the person, and not the height.

However, I will say that  paying all this money, taking time off, getting your legs busted and going through months of rehab to be 6ft 3 instead of 6ft doesnt seem worth it to me. You are already tall enough whereas your society does not judge you. In fact you are already reaping the benefits of your height. However, its your call and if you go for it, I stand behind your decision.

Just my .02

As far as how much you lengthen goes, I do not see the benefit of being 2-3 inches taller considering the pain, effort, money and risks we take.  I just dont. Some of you might and I stand behind your desire as well.

 I want  14 cm . Basically the safest limit we can do without risking complications. Maybe even only 6cm per segment but 7 is not unreasonable. This amount of height will make a tremendous amount of difference to me and well worth the 1 1/2 to 2 years its going to take.

14 cm wont make my proportions look way out of whack. My legs might look a tad too big but again I have very short legs for my body so I caught a break there. My torso fits a larger man.

Everyone has their own goals and dreams. Who are we to scold them and say its 'wrong'? As long as we are informed of the consequences and are prepared to live with them, there is no right or wrong choice.

[joax]

As far as how much you lengthen goes, I do not see the benefit of being 2-3 inches taller considering the pain, effort, money and risks we take.  I just dont. Some of you might and I stand behind your desire as well.

You are mistaken sir. 3 inches is a HUGE difference, especially when you're 5'7 or 5'8. I'm 5'8 and I feel short when I don't wear lifts. With lifts I'm 5'10 and I feel tall, women are easier to pick up and people even comment on my height. I do come from a country where the average height is a little under 5'8, but the difference is enormous and that only two inches. My objective is to reach 5'11 without lifts and 6'0 with 1-inch lifts (since they're more comfortable than the 2 inch ones I wear).

[Ajax2thousand20]

3" will take you from short to average, average to tall, tall to very tall! There's no way you can't say 3" is a huge difference. Even 2" if your 5'7" and above will be a huge change in life.

[TomD]

You are mistaken sir. 3 inches is a HUGE difference, especially when you're 5'7 or 5'8. I'm 5'8 and I feel short when I don't wear lifts. With lifts I'm 5'10 and I feel tall, women are easier to pick up and people even comment on my height. I do come from a country where the average height is a little under 5'8, but the difference is enormous and that only two inches. My objective is to reach 5'11 without lifts and 6'0 with 1-inch lifts (since they're more comfortable than the 2 inch ones I wear).

I understand where you are coming from but bare with me for a second.

Three inches is standing on your tip toes. Go to the mirror and stand on your tip toes. You are a little taller true, but that is it.

Go up and down on your toes for a few minutes so you can really see how much you are gaining.
Now, picture having to spend 10k to 50k , breaking your legs, going through 10 months of physio with parts of it in a wheel chair and other parts on crutches. Now look in the mirror and go on your toes again. Is it worth it?

While you are considering that, consider this:

Few are able to lengthen 7.5 cms. I want to do 7cms and I get scolded for it frequently on here.Most have a 6cm safety limit and some even have an ultra safe 5cm limit (2inches) Are you prepared to lengthen for only 2 inches? Honestly? 2 1/2 inches worth all that time, money and agony?

Then there is the symmetry. If you lengthen one segment, you should lengthen the other so they end up in the same proportion from when you started. If you want to grow 3 inches, you will need to be extremely lucky to do it in 1 operation without complications and even then your legs will be out of proportion. So you should do 2 procedures.

Nobody I have ever heard of is willing to do 2 procedures to gain 3 inches. Even 4 inches seems like a waste to me. If I am doing LL, I am doing 5 1/2 inches which is roughly 14cm.

Hope I explained myself clearly enough. 

[programdude]

3 inches on femurs has been an incredible night and day difference in terms of height, and that is still with bad posture. Yes looking at a ruler and considering the torture and money you will need to go through for those inches is pretty insane, but when actually apple to your body the result is more tangible than you would think.

[ItsMyLife]

from what i read,  yes.

i've no mental issues, though.

they are either mentally ill or trollls. i wont point names.

but i think  a sizeable portion are functional humans.