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[Uppland]

Why do so many of these discussions come down to what's best for fighting?

If I were a woman I would just sigh and go "men"

[Wannabegiant]

Why do so many of these discussions come down to what's best for fighting?

If I were a woman I would just sigh and go "men"

To be fair, the opening post pushed this topic into that territory, so fighting was highly relevant to the discussion from the beginning.

To anyone who who still believes height is such a big advantage in a fight, i suggest you look at this highlight of Igor Vovchanchyn, a 5'8 tall Heavyweight, who managed to get a 30+ fight winning streak at that weight as well as LHW (205 pounds), pretty much all his opponents where much bigger than him.

Height is an advantage, but so is speed (shorter men are faster on average, both movement and handspeed), athleticism (taller men are not more athletic on average) cardio (shorter/smaller men have better cardio on average) and durability ( humans regardless of size have very similar size heads, and how much punishment the head can take is not strongly correlated with the height of the individual)

[ReadRothbard]

Short guy is going to be faster; a short guy has less weight he needs to throw around for a punch, plus his reach is usually shorter, thus he can accelerate a punch across a shorter reach in less time than a tall guy can accelerate a punch across his longer reach.

[Moubgf]

4 cm is not worth it. No one will notice a difference ttttrrrruuuussst me. and especially for the money we/you are throwing at this. 6 cm is the minimum and 7.5-8 max.

Now i will stop at probably 6 and if my body lets me or whatever i will push to 7.5 and go on with my life.

[ReadRothbard]

its easy, tall mans are more aestetic than short ones .
Taller mans will always have advantage in a fight or in supervivence.
More height = more weight and longer arms to punch.
If they need to climb a mountain or a tree, its easier for taller man, because short man often cant get points to climb where taller ones can.
Tall mans can walk and run faster
there are lots of reasons.

Yet, oddly enough, the two undisputedly strongest men in history, Louis Cyr and Paul Anderson, were only 5'8.5 and 5'9.5 respectively.

[Uppland]

Maybe because it's average height and thus just more likely than someone short or tall.

[ReadRothbard]

I also forgot the 5'5, 155 lb Victor Delamarre, who backlifted 7000 lbs.

[123]

I also forgot the 5'5, 155 lb Victor Delamarre, who backlifted 7000 lbs.

This is a stupid way to argue, just because there are/were some strong short men doesn't mean short men are stronger in general. You won't get strong by being tall or short, you get strong by doing exercises and eating.

But the taller you are the more potential you have.

[ReadRothbard]

This is a stupid way to argue, just because there are/were some strong short men doesn't mean short men are stronger in general. You won't get strong by being tall or short, you get strong by doing exercises and eating.

But the taller you are the more potential you have.

What evidence do you have that taller men have more "potential" to be stronger?

 Also, don't commit a strawman argument; I never claimed that being tall or short had anything to do with being strong, and you know that. My whole position is counter to that.

Finally, how would taller men have more "potential" to be stronger if the strongest men in history have been from a whole range of heights, from 5'4 (Franco Columbu) to 6'3 (Zyndrunas Savickas)?
Hell, Ed Coan's drug-tested powerlifting total of 2282 lbs bested the legendary 6'3 Konstantins Konstantinovs' 2217 lbs total despite being a whole nine inches shorter than Konststinovs.

I don't follow your logic that height somehow equals strength potential.

[Uppland]

What evidence do you have that taller men have more "potential" to be stronger?

Bigger muscles?

[KrP1]

taller people got bigger muscles . their muscle insertions are much more longer . so they could weight a lot more and have bigger muscles.
you cant have the muscle sice of a guy of 170kg if you weight 90.

The stongests power lifters in the world are over 6´0

[GeTs]

u really think a women will judge a man based on how strong he is or how quickly can he punch, she may even consider him too violent, it has nothing to do with strength as to why women prefer taller men, just an aesthetic point of view

[KrP1]

they prefer  taller mans because TALL MANS ARE MORE AESTETIC THAN SHORTER ONES if they want mans for their strengt then strongmans would be the more atractive mans in the world.

[ReadRothbard]

What's more aesthetic about being tall?

[ReadRothbard]

taller people got bigger muscles . their muscle insertions are much more longer . so they could weight a lot more and have bigger muscles.
you cant have the muscle sice of a guy of 170kg if you weight 90.

The stongests power lifters in the world are over 6´0

This is not true. I don't know how many counter examples you need, but nowhere close to all top powerlifters are over 6 foot. They come from a wide range of heights. I'll list of some famous ones right now-
Konstantin Konstantinovs-6'3
Ed Coan-5'6
Kirk Karwoski-5'10
Don Reinhoudt-6'3
Jon Cole-5'10
Franco Columbu-5'4
Robb Buddha Philippus-5'9
Robert Wilkerson- 5'11
"Big James" Henderson- 6'3
"Ted" Arcidi- 5'11
Scott Mendelson- 6'1
Eric Spoto- 5'11
Hugh Cassidy-5'10
Benedict Magnusson-6'0
Paul Anderson-5'9.5 (Deceased)
Anthony Clark- 5'8 (Deceased)
"Gene" Rychlak- 6'1 (Deceased)
"Tiny" Meeker- 5'9
Bruno Samartino- 5'10
Doug Hepburn- 5'8.5 (Deceased)

So, no; you are wrong. Top powerlifters come in a whole range of heights.

[123]

This is not true. I don't know how many counter examples you need, but nowhere close to all top powerlifters are over 6 foot. They come from a wide range of heights. I'll list of some famous ones right now-
Konstantin Konstantinovs-6'3
Ed Coan-5'6
Kirk Karwoski-5'10
Don Reinhoudt-6'3
Jon Cole-5'10
Franco Columbu-5'4
Robb Buddha Philippus-5'9
Robert Wilkerson- 5'11
"Big James" Henderson- 6'3
"Ted" Arcidi- 5'11
Scott Mendelson- 6'1
Eric Spoto- 5'11
Hugh Cassidy-5'10
Benedict Magnusson-6'0
Paul Anderson-5'9.5 (Deceased)
Anthony Clark- 5'8 (Deceased)
"Gene" Rychlak- 6'1 (Deceased)
"Tiny" Meeker- 5'9
Bruno Samartino- 5'10
Doug Hepburn- 5'8.5 (Deceased)

So, no; you are wrong. Top powerlifters come in a whole range of heights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Strongest_Man

Looks different to me.

[ReadRothbard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Strongest_Man

Looks different to me.

Do you not know the difference between WSM competitors and powerlifters?

Besides, powerlifting is a better indication of strength that the WSM

[Uppland]

Well the honest answer to OP is that no one knows for sure but the fact is that women do prefer tall men. What still amaze me is just how important it is to women, I can't believe I never heard more about it in everyday life always thought that if you had a handsome face you were pretty much set. I think height is really underrated when it comes to attraction the vast majority of women view it as a major attractive trait.

I'm not trying to put down shorter people here height is just one thing that make up a attractive person. I'm just dumbfounded by how important it really is, I never would have guessed, it seems so arbitrary when you're unaware.

[GeTs]

Well the honest answer to OP is that no one knows for sure but the fact is that women do prefer tall men. What still amaze me is just how important it is to women, I can't believe I never heard more about it in everyday life always thought that if you had a handsome face you were pretty much set. I think height is really underrated when it comes to attraction the vast majority of women view it as a major attractive trait.

I'm not trying to put down shorter people here height is just one thing that make up a attractive person. I'm just dumbfounded by how important it really is, I never would have guessed, it seems so arbitrary when you're unaware.

once u reach 6'0 its importance is less and less relevant

[Uppland]

once u reach 6'0 its importance is less and less relevant

That may be true but I think that's just because it's an even number. Where I live people talk about 180, 185 or 190CM as milestones.

[ReadRothbard]

Well the honest answer to OP is that no one knows for sure but the fact is that women do prefer tall men. What still amaze me is just how important it is to women, I can't believe I never heard more about it in everyday life always thought that if you had a handsome face you were pretty much set. I think height is really underrated when it comes to attraction the vast majority of women view it as a major attractive trait.

I'm not trying to put down shorter people here height is just one thing that make up a attractive person. I'm just dumbfounded by how important it really is, I never would have guessed, it seems so arbitrary when you're unaware.

I feel the exact same way. It is so weird that women value height to the extent that they do.

[680]

Do you not know the difference between WSM competitors and powerlifters?

Besides, powerlifting is a better indication of strength that the WSM

I will try do to this without drawings and my numbers aren't precise but serve to demonstrate the points.

When you move a weight through the action of your muscles, it is by the muscle exerting a pulling force on the tendons and the tendons then exerting a pulling force against the bone. If you look at your forearm and measure the distance between the insertion of the tendons from your bicep and your elbow and your elbow and your hand, the elbow-hand will be around 7 times longer than elbow to tendon, so when you exert a force from your bicep on your hand it is only 1/7th of the force that the bicep is exerting on the tendon. If the ratio drops from 1/7 to 1/6 (sometimes happens in shorter people) then at the point where they hold the weight (their hand), they can exert more force even though the muscle itself may only have the same strength.

2nd reason - most easily demonstrated by flies.
Take the fly position with upper arms parallel to the floor and using basic physics of forcexdistance, somebody with longer arms has to exert a proportionally greater force to use the same weights than a shorter person would.

Taller people WILL always have more potential and advantages than short people when it comes to fighting.

[680]

If you're doing LL to get a larger dating pool, I feel sorry for you.
If a girl rejects you because of your height, You're dodging a bullet.
Females are genetically wired to choose the strongest and healthiest mate.
height=better nutrition and many,many,many other advantages over the shorter guys.

In my case i really want to do LL because of my self image, I just can't accept being this height.
I don't care how other people perceive my height, I wouldn't have considered LL if i was happy with my height, I value my own opinion most above all.

[Uppland]

In my case i really want to do LL because of my self image, I just can't accept being this height.
I don't care how other people perceive my height, I wouldn't have considered LL if i was happy with my height, I value my own opinion most above all.

Yet. that's how I feel as well. The only thing I want is to be able to feel proud of myself again and to not feel short anymore.

[ReadRothbard]

I will try do to this without drawings and my numbers aren't precise but serve to demonstrate the points.

When you move a weight through the action of your muscles, it is by the muscle exerting a pulling force on the tendons and the tendons then exerting a pulling force against the bone. If you look at your forearm and measure the distance between the insertion of the tendons from your bicep and your elbow and your elbow and your hand, the elbow-hand will be around 7 times longer than elbow to tendon, so when you exert a force from your bicep on your hand it is only 1/7th of the force that the bicep is exerting on the tendon. If the ratio drops from 1/7 to 1/6 (sometimes happens in shorter people) then at the point where they hold the weight (their hand), they can exert more force even though the muscle itself may only have the same strength.

2nd reason - most easily demonstrated by flies.
Take the fly position with upper arms parallel to the floor and using basic physics of forcexdistance, somebody with longer arms has to exert a proportionally greater force to use the same weights than a shorter person would.

Taller people WILL always have more potential and advantages than short people when it comes to fighting.

You are confusing work with force. Taller people do not have to produce more force--they only have to produce it for a loner period of time in the case of your big compound lifts. This is what enabled the short Ed Coan to become "the greatest powerlifter in the history of the sport"; he was strong with a short ROM in his lifts.

Second, your conclusion that tall people will always have more potential and/or advantages in fighting does not follow from your arguements. You still ignore that if tall men were somehow stronger than short men, which is incredibly debatable, short men would still be inevitably quicker, more agile, have a lower center of gravity, and better equipped to strike a tall man's weak points (the groin, ribs, solarplexes, lower abs, etc.).

[680]

You are confusing work with force. Taller people do not have to produce more force--they only have to produce it for a loner period of time in the case of your big compound lifts. This is what enabled the short Ed Coan to become "the greatest powerlifter in the history of the sport"; he was strong with a short ROM in his lifts.

Second, your conclusion that tall people will always have more potential and/or advantages in fighting does not follow from your arguements. You still ignore that if tall men were somehow stronger than short men, which is incredibly debatable, short men would still be inevitably quicker, more agile, have a lower center of gravity, and better equipped to strike a tall man's weak points (the groin, ribs, solarplexes, lower abs, etc.).

This was another point, Not part of the same argument.
If you have two fighters same skill,stamina,power but one is 4 inches taller than the other one , Do you think that his agility or quickness will play a role when the taller guy has the reach advantage?
Just take a look at Wladimir Klitschko 1.98cm/ 6'6" he is almost slender, He dosen't look like a giant ball of mass like the shorter guys not only cause it's harder for taller people to gain mass, Its mostly because he dosen't need to be buffed to defeat his opponents, He knows that he is a fighter not a bodybuilder.
He has a massive reach and delivers very precise hits.

 

Height really matters in everything to a certain point, There is a cut-off point of course, Depending on the situation or sport or whatever.

some examples:

Fedor Emelianenko
Record: 31-4, 1 NC
Age: 34
Height: 6-foot
Weight: 223
Style: Sambo
Birthplace: Rubizhne, Ukraine
Poll Points: 50

 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Record: 33-6-1, 1 NC
Age: 35
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 243
Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Birthplace: Vitoria da Conquista, Bahia, Brazil
Poll Points: 45

RANDY COUTURE
Record: 19-11
Age: 48
Height: 6-foot-1
Weight: 220
Style: Wrestling
Birthplace: Everett, Wash.
Poll Points: 39

 MIRKO “CRO COP” FILIPOVIC
Record: 27-9-2, 1 NC
Age: 36
Height: 6-foot-2
Weight: 227
Style: Kickboxing
Birthplace: Vinkovci, Croatia
Poll Points: 30

JOSH BARNETT
Record: 30-5
Age: 33
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 256
Style: Catch Wrestling
Birthplace: Seattle
Points: 29

 FRANK MIR
Record: 15-5
Age: 32
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 260
Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Birthplace: Las Vegas
Poll Points: 27

TIM SYLVIA
Record: 29-7
Age: 35
Height: 6-foot-8
Weight: 265
Style: Kickboxing
Birthplace: Ellsworth, Maine
Poll Points: 13

MARK COLEMAN
Record: 16-10
Age: 46
Height: 6-foot-1
Weight: 245
Style: Wrestling
Birthplace: Fremont, Ohio
Poll Points: 11

CAIN VELASQUEZ
Record: 9-0
Age: 29
Height: 6-foot-1
Weight: 244
Style: Wrestling
Birthplace: Salinas, Calif.
Poll Points: 10

MMA'S ALL-TIME HEAVYWEIGHTS

Did you see anyone under 6'0" ?
There is only one guy who is 6'0"... the others are taller.
Height=more potential/advantages in most sports.

[Gichelu]

You will almost never have fighters of equal everything facing each other, even in professional sports, so this argument is completely stupid.

[Wannabegiant]

You will almost never have fighters of equal everything facing each other, even in professional sports, so this argument is completely stupid.

Exactly, there are so many other factors into a fight that the height difference becomes secondary in most cases unless there is a huge disparity.

Weight matters more.

Look at the fighter Anthony Johnsson. He is 6'2 and very muscular. He used to cut a lot of weight to make 170 lbs. At that division he lost to rich clementi who was 5'9 and to josh Koscheck who is 5'10. This is despite the weight not being equal due to weight cutting. And Anthony is a very skilled fighter since after moving to 205 lbs he has defeated former HW champ Andrei Arlovski who is 6'3 as well as LHW fighters phil davis and rogerio nogueria who where both 6'2.

So if a fighter that big and tall and skilled to beat fighters at LHW and HW divisions, managed to lose against fighters much shorter and smaller at WW, then how much does reach and height really mean when weight is equalized? (and as said, due to weight cutting there was still a weight disparity in favor of Johnson).

[680]

Do you even know what hypothetical is?
I am not talking about a real life scenario, I am talking about a hypothetical situation where the only true difference in both fighters is the height. Who do you think has more advantage?

My other point about the MMA'S ALL-TIME HEAVYWEIGHTS was that given the average height is less than 6'1" why are most fighters above 6'0" ; 6'1" ?

[Wannabegiant]

Do you even know what hypothetical is?
I am not talking about a real life scenario, I am talking about a hypothetical situation where the only true difference in both fighters is the height. Who do you think has more advantage?

I know what hypothetical is, however i dont see the point in discussing a hypothetical situation that pretty much never happens in practice. There are always disparities in other areas other than height between two fighters, so its very hard to measure exactly how much height matters in a fight. I already told you than being taller has its definite advantages but i dont think they are as significant as some of you here make it sound like

[GeTs]

This went from being a question about women preferring taller men to a discussion about whether height is important or not in a fight