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[Taller]

there is nothing morally wrong with getting LL when you are average. as long as you admit that it is being done because of an internal insecurity and not an external discrimination.

Yes, I openly admit this. I am not descriminated against for being average in height. I am, however, not assumed to be a leader or dominant male before talking or expressing myself. Once I show people who I am and what I am capable of, I can often take the role of a leader. This is not discrimination against me as a person of average height. It is a lack of benefits. I want to get these benefits and above all cure an insecurity and live a dream through LL.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

this massive number of girls who now find you ugly will detract from your social power. however you will have increased social power with men with this new height.

the point is that after you get to a certain height (taller than average) you then start to skew which area you get social points in, you end up detracting more and more from your sexual social power and gaining more points in your peer male to male social power.

if you loose to much sexual social power you may even loose male to male peer power to a certain degree.

[Wannabegiant]

First, let me clarify my point on natural selection. If a person lacks the traits to mate with a certain person of high attractiveness/mating value (which is usually indicative of good child bearing abilities) because of that person's height standards, but LL makes then tall enough to be attractive to that person and mate with her, then the LL patient has effectively out competed all of the men who would have otherwise been the mate of the female in question. Though genes aren't directly involved, you are clearly seeing competition for mates and behavior (LL) affecting its outcome, so that the LL patient's genes are passed on with a desired and probably person whereas they might otherwise not have been. Having your genes instead of another man's inside the offspring of a "high value" woman might ensure longer term survival of your genes than if you'd mated with a less desirable woman without LL. The kids would have your genes and those of the socially valuable woman, and the woman's genes would probably ensure that the children with your genes fare well in the mating game as well since she has many attractive genes, or more than the women that you would theoretically have had without LL. It's a stupid and over simplistic theory, but I thought that it would be fun to throw it out there for the sake of discussion.

Wannabegiant, when did I say that I demanded or deserved the extra benefits that height has on leadership? Nobody deserves anything. Nature is randomness. Order and symmetry amidst this infinite randomness is a large component of beauty. But, back on track. We do the best to live the lives we want to live. Nature doesn't owe us anything and if we don't have it but really want it, we have to get it for ourselves one way or another. If I want something, I'll do my best to get it as long as it doesn't harm others unfairly. Of course justice is quite subjective, but I don't see anything morally wrong with me getting LL at average height. I could buy a car or house, but I'd rather upgrade myself and fix a long-standing insecurity instead of buying a car or house that won't give me nearly the pleasure and confidence that more height would. Call me greedy if you want to, but then call all luxury car buyers, game console buyers, and flat screen  TV owners greedy too.

When did I say height automatically makes a person a leader? I didn't. I said that a person of average height has to work harder and do more to be perceived as a leader. I stand by this. What's wrong with trying to change myself to be more easily perceived as a leader and desirable, admirable man? Sure I don't need it, but I don't need my nice TV or clothes either. I view height as a much better investment than anything else. It won't just give me benefits, it will cure a long-standing insecurity too. My whole family is tall except for me, and it does kind of make me feel unhappy. Getting taller will be a luxury, but what's wrong with obtaining and enjoying luxuries if you've worked hard enough to obtain then fairly? You yourself talk about wearing nicer clothes than others to increase your value above that of the average 179CM dude. How are you not greedy while I am? I'd say we're both greedy. Humans are innately greedy.

I didnt say anyone here specifically demanded anything. However its obvious that a person who is average height and has admitted to not facing any legit discrimination and still wants LL is doing it for extra benefits/luxuries. i said nothing about who deserves what either, i just mentioned that there is a greater justification for shorter people to do LL compared to a average height person. However anyone is allowed to do it if they want to.

Also i dont think it is wrong or weird to be greedy, most people are to a degree. So i guess i dont understand why you guys are so defensive about this issue. It is greedy to feel that you need to have an expensive car to be happy, or other luxuries items, doesnt mean its not normal. And its greedy to want to be taller than average to get extra social benefits. The only reason im focusing on the word greed so much, is because that is the main distinction between shorter and average people who want LL, i dont think anyone should be annoyed about other peoples life choices like some shorter guys are on this site, but trying to make it sound like the same thing for everybody regardless of height is equally wrong. I dont have a problem with average height dudes wanting to be taller, but its not the same thing as under average people wanting to become average, its getting rid of a handicap vs wanting more benefits.

Btw, wanting height to get specific women that is more attractive than you can get with your current height is also greedy. Im sure at average height there should be women around that you find attractive enough to mate with that you can get, i could get attractive women even at below average height and many others on this site seem to have been able to as well. If you think extra height will help you get a 10 instead of an 8 or something, or make it easier, then that is normal but still greedy.

I didnt say me changing my dressing style would make me more special than the average 179 cm dude, i mentioned that i will finally start to care about dressing well since i am average height now. Thats not greedy. Btw im not saying im devoid of greed, never did. I didnt say it is a big deal either, but you are quite defensive of this matter, maybe because the word greed has quite a negative connotation.

[Wannabegiant]

there is nothing morally wrong with getting LL when you are average. as long as you admit that it is being done because of an internal insecurity and not an external discrimination.

the argument is not that it is morally wrong, the argument is one of realization. as long as you can clearly see that its an internal problem and not an external problem then by all means your mind is in the right frame of mind to get LL because it would mean you don't suffer from delusion on this issue.

also I disagree on the leader issue. people who are leaders are leaders at any height. it is a mentality, not a height, the only people you will be a leader over after LL (that you weren't a leader to before) are people who have a weak mind to start with.

Well said, you worded this better than i could manage.

[Taller]

Yes, I'm greedy  And I reacted too strongly. My apologies for that, Wannabegiant.

I was defensive because, since joining this forum, I have felt that some shorter people don't approve of my presence because they feel that it is unfair to them and immoral for a person of average height to become tall through LL.

I don't see why everyone with height neurosis can't get LL and become happy, regardless of their starting height. It's hardly like a few 178-180CM people getting LL will push the average height up so much that shorter people who've had LL will become relatively short again.

[Uppland]

well I disagree strongly. it is a bell shaped curve. girls prefer normality.

you will gain more girls at a taller height wanting to be with you, and loose all other height ranges of girls. the end result is that the small number od girls who now find you attractive is dwarfed by the massive number of girls in the population who now find you ugly(unpleasant, disagreeable, especially in appearance).

I can't believe most girl would find a 193CM guy unattractive because he is too tall. I suppose some women think it's unecessary but not unattractive. Actually when people mention height in Sweden the most idealized ones are 185+ and 190+. Why do you say women think tall men are unattracive I've never heard of it before.

[Uppland]

Yes, I'm greedy  And I reacted too strongly. My apologies for that.

I was defensive because, since joining this forum, I have felt that some shorter people don't approve of my presence because they feel that it is unfair to them and immoral for a person of average height to become tall through LL.

I don't see why everyone with height neurosis can't get LL and become happy, regardless of their starting height. It's hardly like a few 178-180CM people getting LL will push the average height up so much that shorter people who've had LL will become relatively short again.

I also noticed this but it's understandable LL is a gruesome procedure and I probably would have thought the same if I were shorter.

[Wannabegiant]

Yes, I'm greedy  And I reacted too strongly. My apologies for that, Wannabegiant.

I was defensive because, since joining this forum, I have felt that some shorter people don't approve of my presence because they feel that it is unfair to them and immoral for a person of average height to become tall through LL.

I don't see why everyone with height neurosis can't get LL and become happy, regardless of their starting height. It's hardly like a few 178-180CM people getting LL will push the average height up so much that shorter people who've had LL will become relatively short again.

No worries man, i understand your take on this, glad we could talk this through anyway, its an interesting discussion

[Taller]

No worries man, i understand your take on this, glad we could talk this through anyway, its an interesting discussion

Me too. What's awesome is that we're the same height now! Based on my experience, nothing (except maybe an NBA career, but who cares) is out of your reach at this height. Enjoy!

[Overdozer]

I was defensive because, since joining this forum, I have felt that some shorter people don't approve of my presence because they feel that it is unfair to them and immoral for a person of average height to become tall through LL.

And it is only fair. Most of the guys looking to get LL are in a height range of 162-175 (85% are - old forum  poll), the lower range (162-168) will have a hard time getting to your height even with TWO surgeries, the higher (168-175) will need at least two surgeries, if they want to look proportionate. LL is a stressful procedure as it is and all of you 5'11+ guys are only here to stress and annoy everyone even more. Your complaints about average, average-tall height, which mostly consist of delusions, serve as even more of annoyance, and you're hinting everyone (85%, the majority) that even with two surgeries they're supposed to feel inferior and unhappy, just like you do. I think it's not that hard to understand. And if it is for you, try to imagine someone at your target... "perfect height" join this forums and start whining daily how he feels short at 195 cm and he needs to lengthen 10 cm, so he could feel like a leader or some crap like that. Surely you wouldn't take that serious, huh, and you'd probably think that he's mentally challenged.

[123]

And it is only fair. Most of the guys looking to get LL are in a height range of 162-175 (85% are - old forum  poll), the lower range (162-168) will have a hard time getting to your height even with TWO surgeries, the higher (168-175) will need at least two surgeries, if they want to look proportionate. LL is a stressful procedure as it is and all of you 5'11+ guys are only here to stress and annoy everyone even more. Your complaints about average, average-tall height, which mostly consist of delusions, serve as even more of annoyance, and you're hinting everyone (85%, the majority) that even with two surgeries they're supposed to feel inferior and unhappy, just like you do. I think it's not that hard to understand. And if it is for you, try to imagine someone at your target... "perfect height" join this forums and start whining daily how he feels short at 195 cm and he needs to lengthen 10 cm, so he could feel like a leader or some crap like that. Surely you wouldn't take that serious, huh, and you'd probably think that he's mentally challenged.

+1

[Uppland]

And it is only fair. Most of the guys looking to get LL are in a height range of 162-175 (85% are - old forum  poll), the lower range (162-168) will have a hard time getting to your height even with TWO surgeries, the higher (168-175) will need at least two surgeries, if they want to look proportionate. LL is a stressful procedure as it is and all of you 5'11+ guys are only here to stress and annoy everyone even more. Your complaints about average, average-tall height, which mostly consist of delusions, serve as even more of annoyance, and you're hinting everyone (85%, the majority) that even with two surgeries they're supposed to feel inferior and unhappy, just like you do. I think it's not that hard to understand. And if it is for you, try to imagine someone at your target... "perfect height" join this forums and start whining daily how he feels short at 195 cm and he needs to lengthen 10 cm, so he could feel like a leader or some crap like that. Surely you wouldn't take that serious, huh, and you'd probably think that he's mentally challenged.

If this thread makes people feel bad maybe a moderator can delete it. Nothing valuable would be lost really.

[Polycrates.]

This thread should not be deleted. I don't want to see this forum turn into an old forum -esque venue, where information and posts are deleted at random. There is good evidence in here illustrating how most actual LLers are pretty sick f**ks, lol. I'll be the first to admit that at average height, this shouldn't be a necessary procedure. I won't deny the fact that shorter men have it far harder than average men, and it shouldn't be discounted on here.

[programdude]

I don't see why people think its unethical to get LL if you are above average. Silly sure, thats a fine opinion, but to say its unethical just sounds like someone who's below average and can't do the surgery and is bitter that they can't even get to that persons starting height.

At the end of the day LL is just as ethical as getting braces, or any other cosmetic augmentation. You could also argue its the same as buying a fancy car or nice house. That raises your value and improves your quality of life, but is it unethical to do so just because you are wealthy and someone else isn't, and just further flaunts what you have and they don't? Of course its not unethical-everyone is constantly doing things to raise their value- get a better job, get whiter teeth, get into shape.

LL is a hard process, if someone is willing to raise the funds to do it, regardless of their starting height theres nothing wrong with doing so. Even if their parents pay for it, they are still sacrificing their time and dealing with plenty of pain. There was someone who finished lengthening as I got here who had been a bit taller than me pre lengthening, and did two operations to gain 1 3/4 inches TOTAL, blowing 200k or so in the process. Sure that came from his parents and could have gone towards something else to raise is value so to speak, but for being willing to brutalize his body twice and lengthen the tiny bit he did, perfectly accounting for his proportions, power to him.

Lastly, its pointless to argue the ethics since this is kind of something that will never come up since no one knows what LL is for the most part and no short guy will ever be getting laughed at by some tall guy and be shouting about how his height is an unnatural abomination since he got it at an average height.

[Polycrates.]

More people know about LL than you'd think.  There's been significant exposure in the media and when you type in limb on google, limb lengthening is one of the top queries. It's not like this is some encrypted silk road forum where only the most exclusive of people can join and view. It's open for the whole world to see.

[Polycrates.]

Hey programdude,

Check your pm.

[programdude]

More people know about LL than you'd think.  There's been significant exposure in the media and when you type in limb on google, limb lengthening is one of the top queries. It's not like this is some encrypted silk road forum where only the most exclusive of people can join and view. It's open for the whole world to see.

My point is its not SO overwhelmingly common OR obvious that its a situation that would even ever come up. Guys who get the operation aren't just going to bare the scars plainly or openly discuss the operation. Yes a certain percentage of people are aware of it, but most think that almost no one gets it. The initial reaction from most stories on it is "thats for crazy people", which is exactly what I thought hearing about it a few years ago.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

I think this thread has a lot of value in demonstrating different peoples view points.

Your complaints about average, average-tall height, which mostly consist of delusions, serve as even more of annoyance

exclide hit the nail on the head. a lot of people who want to be that tall(above tall) are delusional in their expectations and the "annoyance" comes from the fact that they will never realize this.

some people think that if they are not taller than 95-99% of males then they will be a loser at life.

the truth is that when people(who have not had LL) are taller than average they are going to be told how ridiculous it is because they will gain next to nothing from surgery. in fact their dating pool will diminish, and they are so caught up in delusion that they will never accept this. in fact the only thing they will achieve is the removal of height neurosis even if their dating pool is smaller.

these people are effectively having surgery because of a mental condition, and this is an internal mental issue which yes LL can cure, however they will get no physical gain. I fell compelled to inform these people that yes your height neurosis will be gone but you will gain nothing, and this is all a mental condition where you feel inadequate, and its even possible you will feel inadequate about something else after LL.

people who are short or average will cure height neurosis and achieve an actual social gain in society. people who are already above average and tall will only cure their mental condition of height neurosis and even limit their potential dating pool.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

when you are already tall, and above average then if you are inferior to your peers it is not because of height. these people should focus on their other aspects instead of making height act as an escape goat for them considering their social status to be lowly.

[kunta kinte]

Average and even tall people want and are getting this surgery, accept it and move on. Please stop making every thread about how wrong it is and how you dont aprove of it, cant we all just get along?

[Shor7Guy]

I like how you talk for every female and also imagine them like they're complete brainless, primative creatures. Way to go, friend!

when it comes to attraction they are primitive creatures.

[G-Man]

when it comes to attraction they are primitive creatures.

Lol aren't we all?

I, for one, wish that we were all equal but life decided differently.

One thing for sure is that being 5'2" or 5'10" we will all benefit, more or less, of being 2-3 inches taller, isn't this site what is all about?  LL experiences?

If a 6'4" guy wants to do LL I'd think that it's a complete waste of time, money and health but I would still appreciate if he writes a diary and be curious about his motivations.  The more you know.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

kunta kinte

we don't care if someone who is 9"2 wants LL. we call them out on it to inform them about their mental health.

anyone who is tall and wants surgery is only going to cure their mental condition, there is no external factors.

if they are going to get surgery I don't really care, but I am still going to inform them. it would be wrong not to.

the truth will always be the truth. and if you think that I ultimately care if someone who is tall gets LL then you don't even understand what I am typing to start with.

[ReadRothbard]

when it comes to attraction they are primitive creatures.

Honestly, I think a good majority of women are pretty brainless. They are fun to look at and "play" with, but they are very, very irrational and easily manipulated. I think this irrational female obsession with male height, which offers little benefit in terms of natural selection, is testament enough to the weak-minds of most women. Granted, there are many women who aren't like that--especially amongst women my age, as I've noticed that they don't care too much about height--but most women are pretty weak-minded.

[Uppland]

Honestly, I think a good majority of women are pretty brainless. They are fun to look at and "play" with, but they are very, very irrational and easily manipulated. I think this irrational female obsession with male height, which offers little benefit in terms of natural selection, is testament enough to the weak-minds of most women. Granted, there are many women who aren't like that--especially amongst women my age, as I've noticed that they don't care too much about height--but most women are pretty weak-minded.

I'm a man same as you so I know where you're coming from but check this out:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/denise-milani-blue-bikini-balcony-p.jpg

This is a link to a model with unnaturally large breasts. Like a 6'4 man their size is more of a evolutionary disadvantage but still few men could honestly say they don't look sexy as hell. Just looking at them will release dopamine hormone to your brain and trigger an increase in heart rate and blood flow. When you get sufficiently aroused you will disregard almost anything in order to mate with her just because her large breasts is a sign of high estrogen levels, like a peacks colourful feathers is a sign of abundant nutrition.

Before you brand womankind "brainless" and "weak-minded" take a moment and try to be a little self-concious. We're all slave to biology it doesn't make us weak. Please, the internet doesn't need more misogony.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

We're all slave to biology it doesn't make us weak.

I completely agree. besides everyone in society is brainwashed. everyone is brainwashed to a different thing. everyone has their vice, so its hypocritical to judge others.

also just a side not and im not saying it is my opinion because I have not researched it. but out of curiosity:

English and Malaysian researchers showed full-body photos of women to 361 men, who rated their attractiveness. The women with large breasts were not considered the most attractive. The honor when to the women with medium-size endowments

trivia:

     
 1)Poor men like big breasts while financially secure men prefer smaller breasts.
2)Hungry men desire big breasts while satiated men prefer a smaller chest.
3)Men not interested in fatherhood find large breasts less attractive
4)Squeezing breasts may prevent cancer

Good news for men — you may actually be saving the life of your significant other by continuously grabbing her breasts.  According to the UC Berkeley and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, squeezing breasts can prevent cancer.  Apparently mechanical forces and applying physical pressure on the breasts can stop the rapid growth of cancer and prevent out of control cells from turning malignant.
5)Women who get breast implants are three times more likely to commit suicide
6)Sexist men preferlarge breasts

According to a study from the University of Westminster, men who exhibit sexist attitudes towards women are also likely to have a preference for large breasts.
7)Men who like small breasts prefer a submissive partner
8)Staring at boobs extends a man’s life by five years

A German study, which has been circulating around the internet for years, claims that staring at women’s’ breasts for ten minutes a day will prolong a man’s life by five years

and finally: 9)Breasts Are the Key to Second Base

Most men don’t know about this but those who do use it to their advantage. The breasts are the key to second base as they are located close to the libido. Fondling and playing with them leads to sexual arousal. This is one of the major reasons why men love breasts

ahahhahaah lol

[endomorphisme]

I analised height this week, i just compared myself to other men in the streets of Paris based on eye level.There are  ton of people who are 185-188 cm, but 192 cm and more is not  that common.

As i said, if i wished, i could be 192 cm, which is the perfect height according to most people on
this forum and old forum  but my goal is just 185 cm ( well, in fact it's 186-187 cm, but i'm not going to spend 60 000 euros, just for 2.5 cm).

So i don't see the purpose of being that tall, since most men are below 190 cm, even though a good proportion is near.At 185 cm you will never be towered, and you are taller than 99 % of women ( yeah, some women are 185 cm nowadays, but above that is rare), you will never look ridiculous, and according to my female and males it's kinda perfect.

[endomorphisme]

females and males friends*

[Uppland]

Okay sounds fair 185 cm is a decent height I personally would like to be taller but I'm not gonna go all risqué on the surgery just because of that.

Off topic: The site said "this account has been suspended" earlier today. Anyone know wht that's about?

[123]

I analised height this week, i just compared myself to other men in the streets of Paris based on eye level.There are  ton of people who are 185-188 cm, but 192 cm and more is not  that common.

As i said, if i wished, i could be 192 cm, which is the perfect height according to most people on
this forum and old forum  but my goal is just 185 cm ( well, in fact it's 186-187 cm, but i'm not going to spend 60 000 euros, just for 2.5 cm).

So i don't see the purpose of being that tall, since most men are below 190 cm, even though a good proportion is near.At 185 cm you will never be towered, and you are taller than 99 % of women ( yeah, some women are 185 cm nowadays, but above that is rare), you will never look ridiculous, and according to my female and males it's kinda perfect.

I would recommend wearing lifts then, because normally people are wearing shoes outside, so they're automatically 2-3cm taller, so therefore there are a lot of people who are around 182-185cm. Also you are comparing your eye-level to other peoples "head-top" (I hope you know what I mean), so from your point of view you feel shorter.

Well what I'm trying to say is that LL is not worth at your height (my opinion, I don't know you etc.), I think it would be better if you would your "LL-effort" into fitness for example. Because any women in this world would take a 183cm guy with a nice body over a 186cm guy with an average build.

I'm telling you this because LL is brutal, pretty much everyone underestimates it

[Polycrates.]

185cm is perfect, but I'm only 184cm in the morning. Always just short.....