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[Wannabegiant]

I'm pretty confident that someone with your stance will be seen more attractive and respectable, than someone with an attitude of "ahh, I need to be 2 meters tall, then everyone will like and respect me". They'll be most likely viewed as maniacs, if they let their thoughts out.

Haha thanks man And i agree with your view of it

[Wannabegiant]

@Wannabegiant
You're right again but like I said before what makes height so valuable is that you cannot work to improve it. Certainly there are othe ways to be respected and attractive but as you said you have to work harder, always be a little better.

Doesn't it bother you that you need to "make up" for how tall you are?
It's true that the fact that taller men always has an advantage over me really takes a bite out of my motivation to improve myself. Even if I become an objectively more impressive person overall that injustice is always in play like a thorn in the side. Yes the process may build my charater, yes I've probably got height neurosis and yes most people think this bothering me so much is ridiculous.

Still we all recognize that sometimes we can be happier only by changing ourselves otherwise we wouldn't be on this board but this isn't an easy fix for me I've been aware of LL for a long time and I thought it was completely out of the question for any sane person regardless of how short he was.
In the end it doesn't matter much why we do this surgery as long as we're sure it's for the best. Without turning this thread to a argument over eachothers psychology let's get back on track, there is no right answer as I said in the OP but I still think that the 190 - 195 range is ideal at least for me.

It bothered me when i was below average that i felt like had to make up for it to even be considered on the same level as guys who had no ambition, talent or even looks but where tall. I dont feel like this is the case anymore now when im about average (i also base this on looking at other people around average height)

I feel that now when im average, i dont need to make up for height to be accepted and avoid discrimination, but if i want to be greedy and have extra social benefits (which are nothing more than luxuries when you get down to it)  im fine with working hard to improve myself.

Taller people have it easier, but their potential isnt higher than average people because if you want to be treated like somebody special by lots of people or be famous, then simply being very tall is not enough.

Btw, i dont think it is strange that you want to be taller, 185 or something like that is a great height. However the way you talk sometimes makes it sounds like you wont be happy even at that height, like you need to be among the tallest 1 percenters in the world or something, its not healthy to think like that.

[Uppland]

Do you feel average at 178? Because I have to say I don't or at least not properly so. It's not a bad height though I haven't been discriminated towards in any way that I've noticed and plenty of girls are still interested in me even taller ones. I suppose it is neutral being this tall.

[Taller]

Do you feel average at 178? Because I have to say I don't or at least not properly so.

Personally, in some situations, such as walking around in public, I feel perfectly average at this height and in others I feel slightly short. I never feel tall which is what it seems like Uppland and I always hoped/expected to be since childhood since out male family members are all significantly taller.

Basically, I feel short around large groups of young adult men and average in the general population, which includes men that are older and may have shrunken or had less access to today's nutrition and medical standards.

[endomorphisme]

185 cm is good enough for a man, wanting to be 195 cm is silly.
I'm studying engineering in France, when i was 18 ans years old i used to think the average height was 185 cm for my young peers, but i only focused my mind on the taller guys.
Then i started to count people taller and shorter than me in my school (i'm 23 now), and i just realized that i was wrong.
There are no official data in France, but from  objective observations, without focusing on the tall guys, the average height seems to be around 179 cm for young caucasian men.
I want to be 185 cm just to be in the 80 th percentile, but considering my starting height, i could be 192 cm but since only 20 % is 185 cm or taller, it's unecessary to be 190 cm+.
Moreover not every tall guys are handsome, successful or got into a very good university, it may concern 1-3 % of every men, which means the perfect man virtually doesn't exist.

[Uppland]

I've been attentive of others recently and I must say that I really am on the shorter side. Sure it's not by much and obviously there are a lot of even shorter people but most men below maybe 60 years old are definetly taller than me. In my town it seems like most men are perhaps 180 -185CM.

[Uppland]

185 cm is good enough for a man, wanting to be 195 cm is silly.
I'm studying engineering in France, when i was 18 ans years old i used to think the average height was 185 cm for my young peers, but i only focused my mind on the taller guys.
Then i started to count people taller and shorter than me in my school (i'm 23 now), and i just realized that i was wrong.
There are no official data in France, but from  objective observations, without focusing on the tall guys, the average height seems to be around 179 cm for young caucasian men.
I want to be 185 cm just to be in the 80 th percentile, but considering my starting height, i could be 192 cm but since only 20 % is 185 cm or taller, it's unecessary to be 190 cm+.
Moreover not every tall guys are handsome, successful or got into a very good university, it may concern 1-3 % of every men, which means the perfect man virtually doesn't exist.

192 cm certainly seems like perfection to me. You're also right in that most overestimate the height of others I used to think the average of 181 cm was lowballing it but the more I think about it the more reasonable it seems. Still I'd say most young men are slightly taller than that.

-Love France been interested in living there for a while since I was a kid.

[Wannabegiant]

Do you feel average at 178? Because I have to say I don't or at least not properly so. It's not a bad height though I haven't been discriminated towards in any way that I've noticed and plenty of girls are still interested in me even taller ones. I suppose it is neutral being this tall.

Yeah i do feel average at 178-179 cm when im around dudes in the Stockholm area, its common to see taller dudes, but also common to see shorter ones, majority of guys are within 2-3 cm of my height though which is easily good enough for me. Also i do feel tall compared to vast majority of women i see now. 

[Overdozer]

There are no official data in France

Is that so?
http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/docs_ffc/es361d.pdf

[Uppland]

Yeah i do feel average at 178-179 cm when im around dudes in the Stockholm area, its common to see taller dudes, but also common to see shorter ones, majority of guys are within 2-3 cm of my height though which is easily good enough for me. Also i do feel tall compared to vast majority of women i see now.

So you're out and about walking around town now? That's great news. I hope your legs are feeling good and doing their job properly cheers mate.

[endomorphisme]

exclide, in 2003-2006 the average height for a man was 175.6 cm overall , which means  the average height for a young man might be 177.5 cm (as i said there are no offcial datas for young men), and 179 cm for young caucasian men because France is a cosmopolitan country,
And the study you posted is not official, plus heights were self reported

[Dick Dastardly]

8 inches.

[Wannabegiant]

So you're out and about walking around town now? That's great news. I hope your legs are feeling good and doing their job properly cheers mate.

Well not much, but i went to the city because there was something school related i had to do, also ive been in the hospital which is close to that area many times since i stopped lengthening, and that place is always loaded with people.

[Morgenst.]

I've always had 6" as the dream superhero type height. I've had friends ranging from 5'8 to 6'4 I gotta say 5'9 and up is the gold standard in my opinion. Though best I'll ever get is 5'7 without looking like a stick figure so.. I'll manage.

[Shor7Guy]

188-193

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

Maybe it's hard for me to understand coming from a starting height of 165 cm, but I don't quite understand why some people aren't happy unless they're taller than 95% of the population. You wouldn't feel uncomfortable standing out that much all the time?

the reasons for this phenomenon is the same reason everyone who steps into a gym instantly decides they want to look like a model and be the biggest guy in the gym.

people have this weird fantasy where they want to be the king of all males.

I find this quite funny to be honest lol the reason being that to be "the king of all males" you don't need to have the most muscle or be the tallest. its all a mental perception that the underdog has

[Uppland]

So far it seems like most people would prefer to be somewhere in the 185 - 195 CM range that ideal seems to be fairly consistent with what I've gathered from other opinions. Maybe that is as close to a perfect range as it gets.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

actually the correct statement should read........

most people who are not happy with their height seem to think that they would be most happy in the 185-195 range.

girls don't like guys that tall. it is a turn off.

the small amount of girls who are taller than average who become more attracted to you at this height is dwarfed by the massive number of girls who are no longer wanting to be with you because of your height.

your dating pool becomes smaller. because the girls(as an average) consider you to be more ugly at this height and continuing to get more ugly as you become taller.

just because of the way society thinks of the word ugly I will attach a dictionary definition to my context of ugly for this discussion.
Ugly: unpleasant especially in appearance.

[Uppland]

actually the correct statement should read........

most people who are not happy with their height seem to think that they would be most happy in the 185-195 range.

girls don't like guys that tall. it is a turn off.

the small amount of girls who are taller than average who become more attracted to you at this height is dwarfed by the massive number of girls who are no longer wanting to be with you because of your height.

your dating pool becomes smaller. because the girls(as an average) consider you to be more ugly at this height and continuing to get more ugly as you become taller.

just because of the way society thinks of the word ugly I will attach a dictionary definition to my context of ugly for this discussion.
Ugly: unpleasant especially in appearance.

Disagree, I think the opposite is true and I also think the vast majority of girls will agree with me.

Here's an example of the response to a similar question:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140105204518AAReBQt

[Overdozer]

most people who are not happy with their height seem to think that they would be most happy in the 185-195 range.

I agree. That height range is extreme, as it's in the 90-99th percentile, and claiming it ideal is more of an obsession thing, than anything else. Which in the end is closely connected to OHC and BDD.

[Overdozer]

Here's an example of the response to a similar question:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140105204518AAReBQt

That's a very poor source. Try this one:
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/wiki/height

[Uppland]

It was just an example I can't produce any real evidence but I think it's common knowledge that women like tall men. As for how tall exactly, well; that's what this thread is about.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

from exclide.

a curvilinear effect of height on reproductive success in human males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277695/

Can't argue with science. Checkmate.

its a bell shape curve. all the data shows it.
upland. you have a make believe reality in your head where you think taller = more sexy.
in reality it is a bell shape curve. welcome to reality.

[Uppland]

That is a study on reproductive succes i.e number of children, the paper makes an assumption in the very first sentence of the abstract that Human male height is associated with ... potentially with reproductive success. This paper doesn't measure attractivness from what I've read so far rather it examines the link between height and number of children. I'm not aware of any link between attractivness and reproduction -I don't know anything that points to that more attarctive people necessarily have more children.

Even in the introduction the study clearly states that tall men are significantly more attarctive than average and short men:

Human males are ± 8% larger than females (Gray and Wolfe 1980), and male body size (i.e. height) plays a role in both human mate choice and intra-sexual competition. Women prefer taller rather than shorter men in online dating advertisements (Salska et al. 2008), questionnaire studies (Fink et al. 2007) and lab-based preference studies (reviewed by Courtiol et al. 2010), and these preferences seem to translate into real word decisions: taller men receive more responses to online dating advertisements (Pawlowski and Koziel 2002), are more likely to obtain a date (Sheppard and Stratham 1989), are more desirable in a speed-dating setting (Kurzban and Weeden 2005), have more attractive female partners (Feingold 1982) and are more likely to be married (Pawlowski et al. 2000).

So by linking that one paper I'm afraid you've proven very little but thanks for adding to the discussion I appreciate it -seriously I do.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

do you know how women make babies? I will give you a hint, the find a guy who they find attractive and put their penis in them. they don't pick ugly guys if they can help it.


wrong: don't try to manipulate the wording:

Women prefer taller rather than shorter

it did not say women prefer tall, it stated taller. that is a very big difference. taller means taller than short which can also mean average. or (simply taller than their own height)



finally: you don't even understand the significance of the study (or how to determine statistics): every single personality, characteristic, and expression or trait is present at every single height, so if height was not preferred at as close to normality then women would have chosen taller men. but they did not.

my study still trumps your "its common knowledge" rubbish. your the type who try to state that everyone's study is wrong for some reason but you don't post anything to back up your own statements. rather you rely on "common knowledge". its laughable at best.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

ps taller is not what we should even be discussing we are discussing excessively tall.

all studies point to the fact clearly that it is a bell shaped curve.

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

you have not even stated why (you believe) taller men did not make more babies than all other height groups.

you cant just say something emotionally based and not even have a theory.

[endomorphisme]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886907002504

another study about height preference, but i don't understand the charts http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0191886907002504-gr1.jpg .

[GROWtalORdieTRYING1]

your exactly right endomorphisme.

I didn't want to get into it. but it is true you hit the nail on the head. women want a gy a specific amount of cm above their own height(as an average). and so you have to gage the sd1 for womens height as an indicator for best male height.

the only advantage of going beyond that is for social power but not sexual power as women will find you less attractive.

[Uppland]

I can't find any proper studies that examine if attraction increases indefinetly nor can I find a study that proves it doesn't. The closest I got was this abstract that states that the advantage seems to "diminish" after 6 ft it doesn't say when it lovered to become a disadvantage or if the advantages kept increasing but at a slower rate.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1995-01583-001

Let's get on the same page though. Like you I don't think that height advantages increases the taller you get, I will even give you that they probably dip down and start lowering at some point. Where we disagree is where that point is. I don't believe an average height man is more attractive than a tall one and I won't recognize your study as proof because, like I said, it doesn't study attraction just the number of babies. No I don't think being more attractive means you will have more babies on average but I'm open to anything that might prove me wrong.

I also find this article that refers a study that claims that men and women have different ideals. Women prefer their partners to be 8 inches taller while men like their women to be 3 inches shorter.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/genders-cant-see-eye-to-eye-over-height-8498247.html

Since the average female height where I live is 168Cm and the average male is 181CM the average male is not tall enough in the eyes of a woman. Instead the ideal should be 188Cm -a 20CM (8 inches) difference from the female average and 7CM taller than the average male. However this is an individual preference to an extent some women like much taller men and some prefer men just slightly taller. There is no study I've seen that chart those preferences and finds out which is more common.

For the record my "rubbish common sense" were consistent with your study I only ever stated that women prefer taller men and that is common sense just like people in general prefer partners with attractive facial symmetry.

[Uppland]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886907002504

another study about height preference, but i don't understand the charts http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0191886907002504-gr1.jpg .

I think the charts may show how people were willing to adjust their preference in relation to their own height so shorter women will date men who are much taller than them and tall women will date men who are shorter than them. They do this to increase their "dating pool" this means that a tall woman are more likely to date a short man because they are in abundance while a short woman are likely to date a much taller man because most men are so tall to her.