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Author Topic: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible  (Read 6425 times)

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backrandom

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Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« on: February 10, 2018, 08:27:18 PM »

No. Its not near 95%. I have been an athlete for many years . I dont think that is possible for me to get that condition back.
Look at my diary. What i can do now is walk and go upstairs but not run or jump. Go downstairs without looking weird is not possible yet. This surgery needs a lot of time for recovery.

Real experiences to take into account. People who think otherwise are DELUSIONAL. This guy had a smooth surgery and he didn't recover 100%. What about Unicorn and other patients who got complications? They will suffer the consequences for life. I beg you to consider if you really need this.
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kravika

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 10:34:37 PM »

Who gives a fk, unless your livelyhood depends on your shape you'll be fine. Not like anyone does leg day anyway.
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backrandom

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 10:40:56 PM »

Are u serious? Who gives a fk? You're fking disrespectful to the disgrace of some people here who suffered from very serious complications and can't walk. You dserve to get maimed by one of these butchers.
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CaptainAmerica

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 11:09:32 PM »

It's really dependent on patient, lengthening per segment, athletic ability and flexibility beforehand as well... You can't just make blanket statements like this.
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backrandom

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 12:45:05 AM »

You can't imagine how many people are regretful of their decision of having LL. They went to first world doctors and were quite cautious, but got complications though. It's the Russian roulette Unicorn talked about in her diary. You can easily be the unlucky one. People who don't accept this are DELUSIONAL.
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OverrideYourGenetics

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 01:03:42 AM »

Real experiences to take into account. People who think otherwise are DELUSIONAL. This guy had a smooth surgery and he didn't recover 100%. What about Unicorn and other patients who got complications? They will suffer the consequences for life. I beg you to consider if you really need this.

KrP1 did 7cm in the femurs in Sep 2015. He reported in April 2016 that his recovery wasn't near 95% yet. That's not surprising at all. It's barely 2 months beyond the end of the consolidation phase, and 7cm is significantly beyond the 5cm safest limit in the femurs. Also, apparently he was in a wheelchair most of the time, when we know that that best thing for recovery is to walk.

You can't imagine how many people are regretful of their decision of having LL. They went to first world doctors and were quite cautious, but got complications though. It's the Russian roulette Unicorn talked about in her diary. You can easily be the unlucky one. People who don't accept this are DELUSIONAL.

Unicorn lengthened 2mm/day, when the recommended maximum is 1mm. But yes, there's always a risk. ProgramDude went to Dr. Paley yet had his femur snap out of the blue while walking in the mall. However, he had his rods removed by Dr. Rozbruch, not Dr. Paley who had installed them in the first place. Both are good docs though - there's definitely a lottery aspect.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

backrandom

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2018, 01:20:11 AM »

Don't blame patients. Unicorn and Krp1 shouldn't be blamed. They did what they were told to do. It was Guichet who told Unicorn to do 2 mm per day. Krp1 was wheelchairbounded because Fitbone isn't weightbearing. Bear in mind that patients who walk too early sometimes break and bend their nails, and then they have to pay extra money to replace them (many cases in Betz's practice).

Also, how would you explain Musicmaker's disastrous outcome and her 10 surgeries? Are you going to blame her too, as you have done with Unicorn and Krp1? People who dare blaming fellow patients deserve having their bad luck.

I have probably met more patients than most of you will meet in your entire life. They come from Betz, Guichet, Monegal and many other European and American doctors and some of them are quite disappointed. This is a dangerous procedure and you can be the unlucky one. If you don't accept this, you're DELUSIONAL.
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OverrideYourGenetics

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What can we learn from other patients?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 03:21:54 AM »

I'm not blaming anyone. Indeed, doctors are huge authority figures and most patients just listen to them and do what they're told.

Rather, I'm suggesting that we can learn from the experiences of other patients and increase the chances of success. Some of the things I've learned so far:


It's still a crazy surgery, and as ProgramDude said, You will have at least one HELL day. Or to quote DIFM, "Never felt level 10 physical pain in my life until this surgery. And that includes getting hit by a car.".
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

MirinHeight

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 04:07:37 AM »

lol if you think guichet is a good doctor. dude is a butcher who doesn't even know how to do a proper osteotomy and his nail is irreversible.
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currently 179 cm with a 6'2 wingspan
Goal: 182-183
top 5 LL surgeons: Paley, Rozbruch, Mahboubian,  Donghoon Lee, Giotikas

- planning to have LON tibias with dr donghoon lee in summer 2021

OverrideYourGenetics

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Unicorn and lengthening 2mm/day
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 08:29:24 AM »

Note that Paley advises the lengthening should not exceed be 1mm per day, to minimize risk of nerve injury.

Nerve injury can occur with any lengthening surgery but is usually uncommon if the rate of distraction does not exceed 1mm per day and if the amount of lengthening is restricted. Rate control is the most important factor to prevent nerve damage.

Unicorn is a sharp lady, but unfortunately she either wasn't aware of this, or believed Guichet over Paley, or didn't have the strength to stand up to Guichet and not lengthen more than 1mm/day.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

Purushrottam

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 08:36:36 AM »

Don't blame patients. Unicorn and Krp1 shouldn't be blamed. They did what they were told to do. It was Guichet who told Unicorn to do 2 mm per day. Krp1 was wheelchairbounded because Fitbone isn't weightbearing. Bear in mind that patients who walk too early sometimes break and bend their nails, and then they have to pay extra money to replace them (many cases in Betz's practice).

Also, how would you explain Musicmaker's disastrous outcome and her 10 surgeries? Are you going to blame her too, as you have done with Unicorn and Krp1? People who dare blaming fellow patients deserve having their bad luck.

I have probably met more patients than most of you will meet in your entire life. They come from Betz, Guichet, Monegal and many other European and American doctors and some of them are quite disappointed. This is a dangerous procedure and you can be the unlucky one. If you don't accept this, you're DELUSIONAL.

What happened to Krp1? I looked at the last 2 pages of his diary and it didn't indicate anything "wrong".
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Had LL in Sept 2017 with Dr. Paley.
Starting height: 168.5 cm (5'6.5"); Ending height: 175 cm (5'9")
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

Christopherbulder

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 09:32:05 AM »

I' M 100 %  TUDAY
THE FIRST 2 YEARS AFTER SURGERY 50%
AFTER 3 YEARS YES I M 100%
7 CM FEMUR 2003   ALBIZZIA  I M VERY OLD PATIENT
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KrP1

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 11:27:18 AM »

Hi guys,  LL is something that you have to do convinced that a height increase is something that you really need. You need to know that 100% recovery is something very difficult after any major surgery, in this surgery you are going to change your biomechanics. So you have to prefer a height gain over a perfect athletic hability. If the surgery is well done you are going to be able to walk , run , jump and play sports but it is going to be dificult to be in sports as good as before. If you prefer to play football like you do now over height , then LL is not for you.

Respect to the guy who said i was wheelchair wounded , i was 3 months in whellchair , is that too much for you ? Most Paley patients stay more time in whellchair than i did . The only thing that could happen walking before that is to put stress in the screws of the nail. i respected the times of recovery and everything went well so if i could go back in time i would do it the same way i did and with the same doctor again. Im doing my normal life and taller , does it worth it ? ABSOLUTELY YES.









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Purushrottam

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 03:51:41 PM »

Hi guys,  LL is something that you have to do convinced that a height increase is something that you really need. You need to know that 100% recovery is something very difficult after any major surgery, in this surgery you are going to change your biomechanics. So you have to prefer a height gain over a perfect athletic hability. If the surgery is well done you are going to be able to walk , run , jump and play sports but it is going to be dificult to be in sports as good as before. If you prefer to play football like you do now over height , then LL is not for you.

Respect to the guy who said i was wheelchair wounded , i was 3 months in whellchair , is that too much for you ? Most Paley patients stay more time in whellchair than i did . The only thing that could happen walking before that is to put stress in the screws of the nail. i respected the times of recovery and everything went well so if i could go back in time i would do it the same way i did and with the same doctor again. Im doing my normal life and taller , does it worth it ? ABSOLUTELY YES.

KrP1,

 Did you have a complication? I'm not sure why you were listed as an outcome to be wary about. I was wheelchair/walker bound for 3 months as well.
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Had LL in Sept 2017 with Dr. Paley.
Starting height: 168.5 cm (5'6.5"); Ending height: 175 cm (5'9")
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

KrP1

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 07:01:52 PM »

KrP1,

 Did you have a complication? I'm not sure why you were listed as an outcome to be wary about. I was wheelchair/walker bound for 3 months as well.

the complications i had was a loosing screw that was replaced in a 20 min surgery and premature consolidation at 7cm for have good bone formation and being lengthening at 0,8mm/day.
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Unicorn888 by Elaine Foo

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Re: Unicorn and lengthening 2mm/day
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 12:25:27 PM »

Note that Paley advises the lengthening should not exceed be 1mm per day, to minimize risk of nerve injury.

Nerve injury can occur with any lengthening surgery but is usually uncommon if the rate of distraction does not exceed 1mm per day and if the amount of lengthening is restricted. Rate control is the most important factor to prevent nerve damage.

Unicorn is a sharp lady, but unfortunately she either wasn't aware of this, or believed Guichet over Paley, or didn't have the strength to stand up to Guichet and not lengthen more than 1mm/day.

Just to set the record straight, Guichet lengthen his patients about 5mm to 1cm during the initial osteotomy surgery.  Then for the first 2 weeks, his schedule is about 1.5mm per day and one reaches about 3cm by Week 2.  If we didn't follow his schedule, we get screamed at and verbally abused.  Also, we didn't know better about the distracting process.  We were told that lengthening lasts 2 months and 1 month of recovery, and then boom!  You're discharged fully recovered to go back to work and your friends/family without anyone the wiser.  Well, this is all BS!  That's how ignorant and naive we were.  Most of us never recovered within those times and even the successsful ones took 1.5-2 years to recover normal walking gait and get rid of their lordosis/duckass.

That's why during my 3rd surgery to lengthen my left leg, I decided to just wait 1 entire week before starting to lengthen and avoided Guichet's screaming phonecalls and abusive voicemails.  When I finally saw him, he was infuriated that I had not started clicking yet 1 week post surgery.  So he MADE ME sit in his office to click 1cm that day.  I was not allowed to leave until I finished about 150 clicks.  It took about 4 hours and I was crying nonstop because he said I deserve the suffering for not obeying his schedules.  My reasoning was that we already established that I'm a slow fuser and my right leg is already non-union, so WHY RUSH on the left leg?  It just makes zero sense.  But he wouldn't listen to reasoning anymore and was angry that I had no money to pay him for the new nail he installed in my left leg because he had broken my nail in the operating room himself.  And he wanted £37k.

This is why I'm hiding today.  I'm so scarred by that experience.  And as I told you guys here, I opened my bandages to show him oozing green and yellow wounds and asked him if it were normal and could he please prescribe antibiotics.  He dismissed it saying his nails are green in colour and if the oozing persists, he'll give me antibiotics in a week's time.

I went straight from his office to Chelsea & Westminster emergency room and they were so shocked to find me in such abandoned condition, they quickly cleaned up my oozing wound sites and then hospitalized me right away with a strong antibiotic drip.  By then, my skin had broken underneath (erythema) because the 1cm was too much for the soft tissues to stretch in one day.

So PLEASE do not judge until you've been through this process yourself.  It's so easy to sit on the sidelines and hurl opinions when as a patient, you are so confused/in pain/trauma to discern if your doctor is actually making the wrong calls.  Remember that we paid a high price for one of the best hospitals in London and their selection of orthopedists to ensure the best outcome.  So we did believe everything Guichet said and all of us only realized in hindsight how much we were being deluded.

Hence, my diary.  I want each and every potential LLer to be smarter than I was when I leaped into the surgery with only a hope and a prayer.

RealLostSoul

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Re: Unicorn and lengthening 2mm/day
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2021, 01:03:40 PM »

Just to set the record straight, Guichet lengthen his patients about 5mm to 1cm during the initial osteotomy surgery.  Then for the first 2 weeks, his schedule is about 1.5mm per day and one reaches about 3cm by Week 2.  If we didn't follow his schedule, we get screamed at and verbally abused.  Also, we didn't know better about the distracting process.  We were told that lengthening lasts 2 months and 1 month of recovery, and then boom!  You're discharged fully recovered to go back to work and your friends/family without anyone the wiser.  Well, this is all BS!  That's how ignorant and naive we were.  Most of us never recovered within those times and even the successsful ones took 1.5-2 years to recover normal walking gait and get rid of their lordosis/duckass.

That's why during my 3rd surgery to lengthen my left leg, I decided to just wait 1 entire week before starting to lengthen and avoided Guichet's screaming phonecalls and abusive voicemails.  When I finally saw him, he was infuriated that I had not started clicking yet 1 week post surgery.  So he MADE ME sit in his office to click 1cm that day.  I was not allowed to leave until I finished about 150 clicks.  It took about 4 hours and I was crying nonstop because he said I deserve the suffering for not obeying his schedules.  My reasoning was that we already established that I'm a slow fuser and my right leg is already non-union, so WHY RUSH on the left leg?  It just makes zero sense.  But he wouldn't listen to reasoning anymore and was angry that I had no money to pay him for the new nail he installed in my left leg because he had broken my nail in the operating room himself.  And he wanted £37k.

This is why I'm hiding today.  I'm so scarred by that experience.  And as I told you guys here, I opened my bandages to show him oozing green and yellow wounds and asked him if it were normal and could he please prescribe antibiotics.  He dismissed it saying his nails are green in colour and if the oozing persists, he'll give me antibiotics in a week's time.

I went straight from his office to Chelsea & Westminster emergency room and they were so shocked to find me in such abandoned condition, they quickly cleaned up my oozing wound sites and then hospitalized me right away with a strong antibiotic drip.  By then, my skin had broken underneath (erythema) because the 1cm was too much for the soft tissues to stretch in one day.

So PLEASE do not judge until you've been through this process yourself.  It's so easy to sit on the sidelines and hurl opinions when as a patient, you are so confused/in pain/trauma to discern if your doctor is actually making the wrong calls.  Remember that we paid a high price for one of the best hospitals in London and their selection of orthopedists to ensure the best outcome.  So we did believe everything Guichet said and all of us only realized in hindsight how much we were being deluded.

Hence, my diary.  I want each and every potential LLer to be smarter than I was when I leaped into the surgery with only a hope and a prayer.

sorry for necroing that thread but I gotta add this is one of the most terrible things I have read. if this is what LL is about I ain't wanna be parts of it. lowkey glad that Guichet stopped responding to my mails a few years back when I was considering him lol.
I am so sorry for the experience Unicorn.  sucks that your gofundme page hasn't reached its goal. One side of me kinda would like to see a bigger platform supporting people like you, however it would probably be bad for the whole LL collective if this surgery goes public bc there is too much stigma from society  :'(
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 03:43:09 PM by RealLostSoul »
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limbcllnea

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 07:52:44 PM »

It's tough to think rationally when we have the burden of height neurosis weighing us down. Everyone mistakes that it is a personal attack on them when you try to emphasize the risks and caution people to tread carefully. Take a look at this thread that shows a common line of thinking that many of us in the forum suffer from.

there's no way you become disabled for LL

Reading what many of the senior members of the forum said back to me in that thread, I can totally emphasize their feelings. Of course, I feel exact same f**king way. I want this surgery to be 100% risk-free and I want there to be guaranteed full recovery. But something that I want, even if I want it really really really really bad, IS NOT REALITY. Intense feelings of wanting something is a heavy bias that makes clear reasoning difficult.

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dreamingtall

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2021, 05:11:14 PM »

When we discuss athletic ability we are talking about running/squatting/leg building.

We're not discussing upper body strength which is unaffected by the surgery
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Starting Height: 170.68cm; Goal Height: 182cm in two separate operations (^8cm Femurs, ^5cm Tibias)

Ahd1978

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Re: Athletic abilities: 100% back is not possible
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2021, 04:42:34 AM »

I’m a 43 year old patient with 2 previous acl surgeries and now CLL with sr. Paley


I can tell you one thing even with acl 10 years down line I was limping always when I was travelling or didn’t have time to do physio.

Now this is an acl I’m talking about which I would say is nothing remotely compared to a cll

Doctors can only do so much.

So yes if you are in youth your body will react better but wait you grow older it will catch up.

So rather stick to safer limits and be happy. 1 cm less is not end of world.

Even elderly people walk faster than me and pass by me with grace. I am like a penguin with his spirit on steroids  with a goal to be taller and that’s all i am thinking.

But now it’s time to change that and focus on making body whole and be content within safe limits.

I have seen huge difference in crossing safe limits jn my body dynamics



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