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[MakeMeTallAF]

I'm curious, how slow can one lengthen femurs (using Stryde) without risk of pre-consolidation. I know everyone has different rates of bone growth, but I'm just looking for an estimate. Can you go as slow as 0.5 mm/day?

The reason I ask is because I've read soft tissue adaptation is best the slower you go. At 1mm/day you theoretically risk scarring or permanent damage if the muscle/other soft tissues cannot keep up with the rate of lengthening.

[readyprecisestryde]

It’s pretty risky to lengthen 0.5mm a day and it all depends on the person’s bone growth. I was able to drop from 1mm to 0.75mm a day. The doctor would not let me drop to 0.5mm because of my bone growth and did not want me risk pre consolidation. I did femurs using  precice stryde nail.

[Samsunny889]

What about tibia using LON ?

[ghkid2019]

Tibia .75mm femur 1.00mm humerus 1.00mm

[Body Builder]

With tibia even 0,66 is ok especially after the first 2-3 cm. Thats the rate I lengthened till the end after 3cm.

[MakeMeTallAF]

Huh, so the lower limit for femur is around .75mm?

Is there any way to slow down bone consolidation, to allow you to lengthen even slower. Goal is to give soft tissues as much time as possible to adapt to minimize permanent scarring/fibrosis

[Tartar]

Huh, so the lower limit for femur is around .75mm?

Is there any way to slow down bone consolidation, to allow you to lengthen even slower. Goal is to give soft tissues as much time as possible to adapt to minimize permanent scarring/fibrosis

The reasoning is right but fibrosis is something happens after major cellular damages like muscle tear. Anyway you just feel your body and avoid taking painkillers to improve healing and to let fellings come out, in this way you can just go slower as soon as you start feeling pain. Flexibility is individual.

[Samsunny889]

You mean for 2 to 3 cm the lengthening rate should be 1 mm

[Samsunny889]

You mean for 2 to 3 cm the lengthening rate should be 1 mm

This is with reference to tibia

[Body Builder]

You mean for 2 to 3 cm the lengthening rate should be 1 mm

Yes, for the firts 2-3 cms 1mm is the way to go. It is not that hard as for the first cms the soft tissues adapt easier.
After 3cm I truly believe that someone must slow down and on tibias it is feasible for most cases. Of course you must do frequently x rays to be sure you are not in risk of premature consolidation.

I don't have a personal experience about femurs however noone should go over 1mm, it is way too risky.

[brondo]

Yes, for the firts 2-3 cms 1mm is the way to go. It is not that hard as for the first cms the soft tissues adapt easier.
After 3cm I truly believe that someone must slow down and on tibias it is feasible for most cases. Of course you must do frequently x rays to be sure you are not in risk of premature consolidation.

I don't have a personal experience about femurs however noone should go over 1mm, it is way too risky.

Hi Body Builder,

I read in one of Dr. Mahboubian's diaries (I believe it is StrydeNailChallenge) that the doctor was worried about preconsolidation because callus was forming too quickly and I believe Dr. M told him to do 4 distractions a day for about 1.33mm per day. Just wondering if you still object to this, I do know this is probably an exceptional case.

[ghkid2019]

Bcuz he was showing signs of preconsolidation and had fast growth rate.

[MakeMeTallAF]

There was a study done in lambs (I think) that showed a distraction rate of over 1.0 mm/day resulted in lot more soft tissue damage. Nerve damage, blood vessel damage, muscle damage etc.

Our soft tissues aren't made to stretch that fast. The fastest they grow is like 0.2 mm/day during puberty during a growth spurt, far from the 1.0 mm/day we do in femurs.

I think if we could find a way to prevent pre-consolidation by slowing down bone growth, we could lengthen much slower, closer to puberty levels, and that would result in much better athletic outcome long term due to minimal soft tissue damage.

[ghkid2019]

Bubba do we look like lambs?? Oh my

And when you actually do LL, you're gonna cut all this bullshít because the only thing any LL vet wants is to get this entire ordeal over with. Like literally 0 people have said "oh I wanna turn a 3 month distraction phase to 6 months!!!!! Yahh!!!!!!"

[BelowTheMean]

I actually wouldn't mind going slower if it meant a better outcome, especially with 8 cm to femurs. Plus right now it's not like I get to travel at all and it's not exactly easy to go on dates during the pandemic. I've heard of a patient with slow consolidation lengthening very slow and not having any pain at all during the entire distraction phase.

[MakeMeTallAF]

Lambs and humans aren't so different physiology wise
Both mammals, both have same sets of soft tissues. You can argue whose soft tissues are better at adapting but I imagine there isn't much difference.

The question is why would you willingly give up athleticism to lengthen faster? Is an extra 3 months of distraction not worth it to make sure you don't have permanent loss of athleticism and/or complications?

[ghkid2019]

You may have the time and want to stretch the time being disabled, but majority of people either can't afford it or want to get back to life asap

[MakeMeTallAF]

It's literally a few extra months to guarantee you a better life for the next 60 years

Don't really get this logic, why not sacrifice a few months to maximize the rest of your life. Not saying that lengthening 1mm/day automatically means you're screwed cuz most people recover fine, but lengthening slower likely maximizes your chances of recovering as close to 100% as possible.

[Christopherbulder]

Yes, for the firts 2-3 cms 1mm is the way to go. It is not that hard as for the first cms the soft tissues adapt easier.
After 3cm I truly believe that someone must slow down and on tibias it is feasible for most cases. Of course you must do frequently x rays to be sure you are not in risk of premature consolidation.

I don't have a personal experience about femurs however noone should go over 1mm, it is way too risky.

with the doctor GUICHET (GUICHET NAIL) 1 min per day then the 3 week there is a consolidation phase so for 8 days 1.5 min per day to avoid bone fusion

[Body Builder]

Hi Body Builder,

I read in one of Dr. Mahboubian's diaries (I believe it is StrydeNailChallenge) that the doctor was worried about preconsolidation because callus was forming too quickly and I believe Dr. M told him to do 4 distractions a day for about 1.33mm per day. Just wondering if you still object to this, I do know this is probably an exceptional case.

1.33mm is too much. I wouldn't try it even if I risked premature consolidation. The harm you do in nerves and soft tissues by stretching too fast can be permanent. However, the majority of LL patients won't risk premature consolidaion with 1mm on femurs and even less on tibias, especially after the first cms as I said.

[Body Builder]

Bubba do we look like lambs?? Oh my

And when you actually do LL, you're gonna cut all this bullshít because the only thing any LL vet wants is to get this entire ordeal over with. Like literally 0 people have said "oh I wanna turn a 3 month distraction phase to 6 months!!!!! Yahh!!!!!!"

Wrong. Most LL'ers want the best result they can get, regardless of doing LL a few months more by lengthening slower.
Also, the slower you lengthen the less you need for consolidation because you already have some good callus (not that good to preconsolidate though) and you need less days for each cm to have a full grown callus.

Slow lengthening is the key for a successful LL, even more than the amount you lengthen (without exaggerations of more than 8cm of course). 1mm is the max limit of lengthening you should do and the safest is 0.66 to 0.75mm if doctors find that you don't face risk of consolidating too fast. On tibias, most LLers will be ok with 0.75mm, I can assure you.

[ghkid2019]

Of course if u have money and time to not work then u can do anything

But majority of pure externals thread person regret it lol, and retrospectively looking back, wanted to just do LON instead

If ppl didn't give a   about time and truly would want the best result at any cost, everyone would do external Tibias. Best result is external tibia yet evrybooty be shoving a rod up their kneeasscap

Obviously .75mm is fine on Tibias, that's the normal rate for Tibias. That's not a slow rate, that's what every orthopedic surgeon uses for tibia, since tibs regen slower than femur. For femur they use 1mm as "normal"

[ghkid2019]

Soem ppl have naturally fast bone growth so there's no choice it's either speed up or do rebreak surgery multiple times there's no other choice for em and making em do multiple rebreak surgery will fuk em up (myevolution did two rebreak surgeries with doctor fücking paley because " he slow down" and had naturally fast bone growth) and it's not like they can slow down even if they wanted to

[Tartar]

what you have to pay attention to is the pain. 0,75-1,5 is ok for the most, slow down if you feel pain.

[Sibirskiy]

Though I dont recommend it, I lengthened 2.0 mm a day from 6 to 8 cm cause I wanted to get it over and done with. Maybe u shud consider :

Go fast: Contractures were very bad but I recovered eventually
Go slow: Maybe I would have less contractures, but I would have gotten less height as well

For me, I dont regret going fast knowing I would definitely regretted gaining less than 8 cm

[MakeMeTallAF]

I think a possible breakthrough in the field would be if we found a way to make bone to grow more slowly. A lot of people are talking about making bone grow faster, but I think the focus is misguided.

Like I said before the soft tissues are the limiting factor in lengthening, not the bone. If you can go slow enough that the soft tissues can keep up, not only will your recovery be much better, but you'll also likely be able to lengthen more, because now soft tissue is not just stretching but growing accordingly with the bone.

The reason why the upper limits for femur is 8 cm and 6 cm for tibias is because 8 cm of distraction in a period of a few months is way too much for the soft tissues to keep up. Obviously the bone can keep going, if you were only lengthening bone you could lengthen way past 8 cm theoretically.