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[Knik]

http://sante.lefigaro.fr/actualite/2016/07/27/25244-siecle-lhumanite-pris-hauteur
179,7 cm as average in France, it seems too much.

[Knik]

and 182,5 cm for Netherlands, new reason to prove that people who are pretending to feel very short there are just lying or it's psychological. It's seems that biggest woman average is from Latvia with 169 cm as average (it's very big) and Netherlands for men with 182,5. In France, there was a big progression for male according to the website, but not for women. Women average is listed at 164,5.
According to Jean-Joseph Boillot, next economical desicions will influence french average.
According to Evelyne Heyer, the african average diversity is the biggest.

So now can you explain me how we can find some studies listing french people at 5'8"5 and some others (the latest) at 5'10"5 ?

[IwannaBeTaller]

According to Jean-Joseph Boillot, next economical desicions will influence french average.

In what way?

Also, stop reading so much material about country averages.

[Body Builder]

French men are in no way that tall.
Their average height is 1.77 max but I think it is closer to 1.76. Not a mm more than these though.

[Knik]

I agree bofybuilder, but it's the same for Australiens and there is not 8 cm between french and dutch. It's too big
And 169 as woman average is really big, hard to imagine

[eldorz]

I agree bofybuilder, but it's the same for Australiens and there is not 8 cm between french and dutch. It's too big
And 169 as woman average is really big, hard to imagine

I know that the average of countries is variable and very imprecise but for having spent weeks in the Netherlands and in Denmark (which have a almost same men height than Netherlands), I can tell you that the difference of 8cm with french men is absolutely not exaggerated. Maybe it's not more than 8cm, but it can not be really less than 7, imo.

My feeling in these two countries was that the people seemed very well proportioned and seemed "normal" from far away, but they were very often very taller in fact when closer, and mostly very much than french people. I live in France and the feeling was absolutely not the same, I had a feeling of "another 10cm more" when I met people, and girls of my height or even more was something almost normal in there.

I have also seen some TV reports about the height of dutch men and mostly about the fact that everything was unconfortable and/or not adapted to their 'new' height, mostly for the youngers, in high school (tables and chairs), in cars or in standard homes.

[myloginacct]

If they keep growing, they're gonna become a country of slendermen.

[Honore]

tl;dr: go have a coffee, you are not short!

I live in the Netherlands. I traveled all through Europe, including France, Germany and Denmark... I might be able to shed some light on the above matter

The French are way smaller than the Dutch. I am not talking about statistics, I am talking about real life perceptions. Many of my friends are 190+(yes 6'3+) and when we go out in Holland they really don't appear like giants. But when we for example go skiing in France they hardly meet anyone as tall.. I am 165cm and I traveled many, many times through France and the difference with the Netherlands is huge(10cm+ sounds right).. But even with Germany and Denmark the difference is noticeable. As for the Dutch girls, I wish it wasn't, 170cm is NOT at all considered tall.. When walking in the street girls that are 175cm+ are absolutely everywhere..

When I swipe through Tinder, even girls who mention their height as 180cm or plus are not rare. So believe all the storys about Holland, it is truly the land of the giants. It is even worse in the Northen part(believe it or not, thats where I spent half of my life), the difference with the South is easy a couple of cm's. Just went through Tinder to make a list for you guys...47 profiles..38 girls with no mention of height, the others: 180cm, 172cm, 176cm, 185cm, 168cm, 169cm, 180cm and 193cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A female..193cm! That is rare, even here.. Oh my God, even I am surprised..

But don't get frustrated... even in the Netherlands, 175cm for a male is sufficient to get you enough girls* IF you meet certain other criteria like a handsome face, charm, fit body, focus, etc etc. So I truly believe that anyone considering CLL with a starting-height of 175+ is nuts(neurosis, BDD or just plain nuts). But off course there are always
exceptions.. Btw, I am talking about starting-height..if like Bodybuilder you starting-height is lower and after a life of frustration you want to surpass the 175 threshold, I completely understand... I had to include you Bodybuilder, because man, you scare me.. that avatar alone;)

I have known enough tall guys that couldn't get a date, so don't think that 10cm extra will completely change your life. That's why I always say that therapy comes first. After you cleared all other possible reasons that you are unhappy and you informed yourself about the risks of CLL than maybe you might consider CLL.

Finally, something about proportions: one of my best friends is 191 but his torso/sitting height is hardly longer than mine, even his arms are not that much longer than mine...he is all legs. And even if people notice it, it bothers nobody..I know how many girls he dated, so they didn't mind. So stop worrying about your proportions after CLL. If that is what's bugging you the most, don't do CLL.

* if that is your aim.

[myloginacct]

tl;dr: go have a coffee, you are not short!

I live in the Netherlands. I traveled all through Europe, including France, Germany and Denmark... I might be able to shed some light on the above matter

The French are way smaller than the Dutch. I am not talking about statistics, I am talking about real life perceptions. Many of my friends are 190+(yes 6'3+) and when we go out in Holland they really don't appear like giants. But when we for example go skiing in France they hardly meet anyone as tall.. I am 165cm and I traveled many, many times through France and the difference with the Netherlands is huge(10cm+ sounds right).. But even with Germany and Denmark the difference is noticeable. As for the Dutch girls, I wish it wasn't, 170cm is NOT at all considered tall.. When walking in the street girls that are 175cm+ are absolutely everywhere..

When I swipe through Tinder, even girls who mention their height as 180cm or plus are not rare. So believe all the storys about Holland, it is truly the land of the giants. It is even worse in the Northen part(believe it or not, thats where I spent half of my life), the difference with the South is easy a couple of cm's. Just went through Tinder to make a list for you guys...47 profiles..38 girls with no mention of height, the others: 180cm, 172cm, 176cm, 185cm, 168cm, 169cm, 180cm and 193cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A female..193cm! That is rare, even here.. Oh my God, even I am surprised..

But don't get frustrated... even in the Netherlands, 175cm for a male is sufficient to get you enough girls* IF you meet certain other criteria like a handsome face, charm, fit body, focus, etc etc. So I truly believe that anyone considering CLL with a starting-height of 175+ is nuts(neurosis, BDD or just plain nuts). But off course there are always
exceptions.. Btw, I am talking about starting-height..if like Bodybuilder you starting-height is lower and after a life of frustration you want to surpass the 175 threshold, I completely understand... I had to include you Bodybuilder, because man, you scare me.. that avatar alone;)

I have known enough tall guys that couldn't get a date, so don't think that 10cm extra will completely change your life. That's why I always say that therapy comes first. After you cleared all other possible reasons that you are unhappy and you informed yourself about the risks of CLL than maybe you might consider CLL.

Finally, something about proportions: one of my best friends is 191 but his torso/sitting height is hardly longer than mine, even his arms are not that much longer than mine...he is all legs. And even if people notice it, it bothers nobody..I know how many girls he dated, so they didn't mind. So stop worrying about your proportions after CLL. If that is what's bugging you the most, don't do CLL.

* if that is your aim.

Great post, Honore.

There are way more factors to a man's attractiveness than just their height. And some of the people here really do want to add ridiculous amounts. Focus should be on recovery towards your normal life, and not risking increased, long term side-effects...

[IwannaBeTaller]

tl;dr: go have a coffee, you are not short!

I live in the Netherlands. I traveled all through Europe, including France, Germany and Denmark... I might be able to shed some light on the above matter

The French are way smaller than the Dutch. I am not talking about statistics, I am talking about real life perceptions. Many of my friends are 190+(yes 6'3+) and when we go out in Holland they really don't appear like giants. But when we for example go skiing in France they hardly meet anyone as tall.. I am 165cm and I traveled many, many times through France and the difference with the Netherlands is huge(10cm+ sounds right).. But even with Germany and Denmark the difference is noticeable. As for the Dutch girls, I wish it wasn't, 170cm is NOT at all considered tall.. When walking in the street girls that are 175cm+ are absolutely everywhere..

When I swipe through Tinder, even girls who mention their height as 180cm or plus are not rare. So believe all the storys about Holland, it is truly the land of the giants. It is even worse in the Northen part(believe it or not, thats where I spent half of my life), the difference with the South is easy a couple of cm's. Just went through Tinder to make a list for you guys...47 profiles..38 girls with no mention of height, the others: 180cm, 172cm, 176cm, 185cm, 168cm, 169cm, 180cm and 193cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A female..193cm! That is rare, even here.. Oh my God, even I am surprised..

But don't get frustrated... even in the Netherlands, 175cm for a male is sufficient to get you enough girls* IF you meet certain other criteria like a handsome face, charm, fit body, focus, etc etc. So I truly believe that anyone considering CLL with a starting-height of 175+ is nuts(neurosis, BDD or just plain nuts). But off course there are always
exceptions.. Btw, I am talking about starting-height..if like Bodybuilder you starting-height is lower and after a life of frustration you want to surpass the 175 threshold, I completely understand... I had to include you Bodybuilder, because man, you scare me.. that avatar alone;)

I have known enough tall guys that couldn't get a date, so don't think that 10cm extra will completely change your life. That's why I always say that therapy comes first. After you cleared all other possible reasons that you are unhappy and you informed yourself about the risks of CLL than maybe you might consider CLL.

Finally, something about proportions: one of my best friends is 191 but his torso/sitting height is hardly longer than mine, even his arms are not that much longer than mine...he is all legs. And even if people notice it, it bothers nobody..I know how many girls he dated, so they didn't mind. So stop worrying about your proportions after CLL. If that is what's bugging you the most, don't do CLL.

* if that is your aim.

What about migrants living in the Netherlands though? Surely there must be a lot of people living there descending from Africa, the Middle East or Asia, which are not nearly as tall as the Dutch average is claimed to be? And surely their women must not be as tall as the "native Dutch" average women either. I remember one poster on this forum (or perhaps anold forum) saying that even though people are tall in the Netherlands, it's totally normal to go to a Dutch university and see a lot of 5'7'' dudes because a lot of Asian or Arab migrants attend university. And to think that these people likely have higher birth rates than the native Dutch population too, it makes me wonder why this aspect is never mentioned when the myth of the "Netherlands, the land of the giants" is portrayed.

[Honore]

What about migrants living in the Netherlands though? Surely there must be a lot of people living there descending from Africa, the Middle East or Asia, which are not nearly as tall as the Dutch average is claimed to be? And surely their women must not be as tall as the "native Dutch" average women either. I remember one poster on this forum (or perhaps anold forum) saying that even though people are tall in the Netherlands, it's totally normal to go to a Dutch university and see a lot of 5'7'' dudes because a lot of Asian or Arab migrants attend university. And to think that these people likely have higher birth rates than the native Dutch population too, it makes me wonder why this aspect is never mentioned when the myth of the "Netherlands, the land of the giants" is portrayed.

You are absolutely right!.. there are short people living in the Netherlands. I heard one of them has even infiltrated in this forum and wants to do CLL himself.