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[TIBIKE200]

Don't know jack1066, I live in northern Italy and that's how people are here.

[Body Builder]

@ tibike: I agree with many things you wrote but imo and experience height and an overall built (not like a bber but a little more muscular than average) body is much more important than a good face for the majority of women, especially for women over 20 yo.

And the threshold of height that above that it doesn't matter is definitely not 5.9.
For the vast majority of women is 5.11. Many will say 6ft but in reality women can't distinguish between 5.11 and 6ft and because almost all men exaggerate about their heights, most 5.11 guys say that they are 6ft so that's why many women think that this is the real border between tall and average.

Imo 5.11 is more than enough to never have any problem with your height in anything in your life and you also start to have social benefits from it and that's why I want to just reach that height and I don't want to push myself for 6ft which is not so hard after all for a 5.9 man like me after femur LL.
But after 5.11 I won't really care for anything more so I won't risk for more.

Anyway, in the west world, 5.9 is not enough to never face any problem with your height again, especially on dating.
5.11 is the true limit from what I've seen, especially on countries where the average height of men is about 5.10 more or less.
For countries like Norway or Sweden maybe even 5.11 isn't considered anything special but I don't live there and also my body won't look good at all with more than 2-2.5 inches more than now so I really don't care.
If I were 5.11 I'm completely sure that I'd be very happy with myself and if a woman would say that it is not enough, then she would have really be a shallow and moron person so I wouldn't care even a little.

[Ozymandias]

Average height + handsome face  >>>>>>>>>>>>  tall + average face

[Iamready]

Just go out to a bar or club. Find an attractive woman who is with a guy. Compare his height to your own.  I'm 5 foot 11 when I go out and there's a large enough number of guys who are my height or shorter and are doing well enough with the ladies for me to know that there is much more to attraction than just being tall. Maybe BodyBuilder lives in a place where his perspective is true, but fortunate for me, I don't.

[Body Builder]

Average height + handsome face  >>>>>>>>>>>>  tall + average face

Just your opinion.

Women look for protective men to have the feeling of being safe and look tiny compared to them.
That's insane in the 21st century but people, especially women, have still insticts from the ancient years whem a tall and strong man was the one than could really orotect the woman and her children.
So thats why women still look for tall and not skinny men.
And that's why also it is obvious that a man with a big and strong body is much more important for a woman than a man with a good looking face.

I'd really like to be the opposite because I have very good facial characterestics and almost all the women that come with me keep telling me that, but I still see a lot of tall men with an average face have pretty girls with much less struggle, than 5.7-5.9 men with much better faces more fit bodies.

[Jack1066]

People didn't live in little scattered nuclear families in the prehistoric world, they generally lived in tribal communities of hundreds of people with communal (polygamous on both ends) marriages. All the women bought up the children together (sometimes the men were involved in child-rearing too, up to the later neolithic period). I don't know how partner selection was done then but judging by that it wasn't like people always say it is with all the pop-evolutionary psychology. Like I don't know what I'd be attracted to if I lived in 2000 BC Zimbabwe but it might be fat women, lol.

I see short guys with women, I see ugly guys with women, I see fat guys with women, poor guys with women... and presumably they all find these women attractive, and these women find them attractive.

[Body Builder]

People didn't live in little scattered nuclear families in the prehistoric world, they generally lived in tribal communities of hundreds of people with communal (polygamous on both ends) marriages. All the women bought up the children together (sometimes the men were involved in child-rearing too, up to the later neolithic period). I don't know how partner selection was done then but judging by that it wasn't like people always say it is with all the pop-evolutionary psychology. Like I don't know what I'd be attracted to if I lived in 2000 BC Zimbabwe but it might be fat women, lol.

I see short guys with women, I see ugly guys with women, I see fat guys with women, poor guys with women... and presumably they all find these women attractive, and these women find them attractive.

Yes, you can see every possible combination in some cases.
But what we consider as usual-normal is what we see the most.
And the most couples I see, at least when the woman is good looking, are women with men usually at least 4-5 inches taller than them. That's the vast majority. These men can be fit, muscular, with completely average body, with great face or with average face etc. There are many differences with men that are with good looking women except from one thing most of the times (at least 80% and maybe at 90%). The man is taller and if the woman is short or just below average, the man is most of the times much taller (4 inches at least), not just a little more.
So in almost any couple I see and the woman is good looking, the man is most of the times tall or at least much taller the girl (for instance a 5.9 man which is not tall but not short either with a 5.4 woman like me and my ex).
Even very short women are with at least about average men and very rarely are with a short man, even if he is 2-3 inches taller than them.
So, the strong majority of women want tall or at least average men, regardless of their height.

I don't know if things that I see everyday and everywhere seem so odd for some people here.
But I'm completely sure that most of the people in this forum see all these everyday and know what I'm talking about.

[Megamuffin]

No. Are women a factor, yes. Are women the largest factor, no. I have a Napoleon Complex pretty much. I hate havingn everyone look down at me like I'm a child and feeling like a child at formal events where women are in heels. I tried lifts and they just made me more depressed because the shoes have to come off at some point.

[Bander72]

Body builder do you live where there is a lot of tall people. Because hear in San Francisco I see a lot of couples that are of the same height and that 5 inch difference you say is when the gym is abnormally tall 6 3+. Of course for the most part a 5 10 guy is not gonna feel short but I have seen plenty of couples where there the same height.

[Bander72]

No. Are women a factor, yes. Are women the largest factor, no. I have a Napoleon Complex pretty much. I hate havingn everyone look down at me like I'm a child and feeling like a child at formal events where women are in heels. I tried lifts and they just made me more depressed because the shoes have to come off at some point.

No one can Blame you for feeling like that. One of the worst feelings is a woman with her demonic heels towering over you.

[Body Builder]

Body builder do you live where there is a lot of tall people. Because hear in San Francisco I see a lot of couples that are of the same height and that 5 inch difference you say is when the gym is abnormally tall 6 3+. Of course for the most part a 5 10 guy is not gonna feel short but I have seen plenty of couples where there the same height.

In my country the official average height of men is 1.78,5 which is about 5.10,5.
But it is not only that men are relatively tall, it is that women really seek for tall men here, even the short ones, and they give the most importance to that.
Trust me, when I say that most couples have a great height difference if the woman is average-short and this difference is only smaller when women are tall too (5.9 and more) I know what I'm saying.
A 5.9 man here isn't consider enough tall for the strong majority of women here, although for a lot of them it is not a reason for rejection. But even the ones that don't reject you for that, they still feel that you are not tall enough and if you are not the ideal man in every other aspect they tend to disrespect you for that and do jokes about it. And it is comoletely insane to disrespect anyone for his height, moreover if he crushed his legs and reached a very normal and respectable imo height like 5.9 which is about average.
But it is still not enough for what society taught women about how an attractive man should look.
And trust me, almost all the women give much significance to the opinion of their lady friends and when they are with a not tall man they know that most of their friends will see him as someone not attractive enough and subconsciounsly they start to see drawbacks to him too.

But that's women and unfortunately with this situation we have to deal.
I'm sick of tired with all of ithese and I really want do do a second and successful LL to get rid of all of this nonsense that makes our lifes worse without any real reason.