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[Sanity]

whats the risk of arthritis after cll. I know its caused by the disturbing of the tibia/femur ratio and interaction of bones and ligaments with joints but how often it happens and what stage of life. I think for cll ppl it starts occuring as early as 35 when the joints can no longer keep up with the wear and repair due to downgraded hormonal profile. In normal ppl who are prone to it this only happens after 65 atleast. cll ppl are fully prone to this (knees for tibias or hips for femurs). Also i've heard walking after that is pretty much over, or atleast full of pain.

do we have any ll veterans who are 40+ and have been post cll now for 10+ years without arthritis. if not then i assume every cll person is likely to have it down the road due to the high percentage. that's when we say gudbye to walking or atleast the crutches come in with unbearable pain during walking. In the end the new height with cll comes with a limited time offer afterall.

[myloginacc]

Vets like DoingItForMe and Sweden mentioned permanent little pains after CLL. I don't know if those subsided after enough time.

However, there are at least a few cases where a vet made close to a full recovery. Christopherbulder's comes to mind:

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2046.msg32654#msg32654

We'd need to ask him about osteoarthritic pain.

[Cr7]

1-First of all there is lack of any conclusive data/study that could show whether CLL causes premature arthritis or not.
2- This surgery is relatively new so no one knows what will happen 20-40 years down the line. However I think that something would happen altering the natural anatomy of the body, just my thought though.
3- There are not many vets on this forum who have gone through CLL 10-15 years ago. Many old diaries are simply dead, apart from a few vets like Sweden, bodybuilder, oldiebutgoldie etc who sometimes update( thank you guys).
4- Few people who have done it quite sometime ago are Akash shukla (2003/2005), hajnal ban(2002, Australian woman), Mikhail goldreer( the first one to go through the elective CLL, Volgograd Russia, 1992), Thomas keeper( calagry real estate agent, Canada, 2005, guichet patient). These people went public about their surgery. I highly doubtful that they will come to this forum to provide info. Only these guys could tell about the long term effects of this surgery. Dates which I have mentioned might have a deviation of +/- 2 years.
5- @sanity how after CLL there is downgraded hormonal profile and that leads to arthritis?

[Apprehensive Finance]

Sanity you're making a fairly extreme claim. Any sources on that?

[Sanity]

4- Few people who have done it quite sometime ago are Akash shukla (2003/2005), hajnal ban(2002, Australian woman), Mikhail goldreer( the first one to go through the elective CLL, Volgograd Russia, 1992), Thomas keeper( calagry real estate agent, Canada, 2005, guichet patient). These people went public about their surgery. I highly doubtful that they will come to this forum to provide info. Only these guys could tell about the long term effects of this surgery. Dates which I have mentioned might have a deviation of +/- 2 years.
5- @sanity how after CLL there is downgraded hormonal profile and that leads to arthritis?

btw is this mikhail the guy from the barinov clinic?

and the hormones that repairs the damaged cells and replaces the tissues is the somatotropin an also some thyroid hormones. These do continue to be released until late age but the decline by 30 y.o is phenomenal. This is what will guide the food you eat to make new cells instead of just releasing energy.

[Sanity]

Sanity you're making a fairly extreme claim. Any sources on that?

i think there are researches on this but very few as there isn't much data. and no im not claiming im just discussing because this a serious matter. i'd love to be proved wrong but there isnt enough data to suggest otherwise. yea i might be wrong when i said alot of ppl who do ll are prone to it but altering the bones length will definitely cause wear and tear in the joints and increase the chances of tht many times. but if it happens after 50 then we should be fine because we would already be dying due to diabetes or heart attack or cancer or some  . just not 40 plz.

[Cr7]

btw is this mikhail the guy from the barinov clinic?

Yes.

[Apprehensive Finance]

The only thing I have heard about Leg Lengthening causing Arthritis is over lengthening the tibia relative to the Femur. But for so little information you do make several claims in the op. You say you think Arthritis for people who do leg Lengthening starts at 35 due to a downgraded Hormonal Profile. But what evidence do you have that Leg Lengthening downgrades someones Hormonal Profile? Why did you pick 35? Also saying that walking after someone getting arthritis is over sounds like fear mongering. With so little data it does honestly sound like your letting your fears about the surgery run wild. There is some risk with the surgery but saying Arthritis is guaranteed for someone who did Leg Lengthening really has no basis in fact. Also, you don't consider what quality of Bone someone grew has to do with the health of the limbs. My doctor said I grew really healthy  and strong bone, so I imagine that mitigates the risk.

[Cr7]

i think there are researches on this but very few as there isn't much data. and no im not claiming im just discussing because this a serious matter. i'd love to be proved wrong but there isnt enough data to suggest otherwise. yea i might be wrong when i said alot of ppl who do ll are prone to it but altering the bones length will definitely cause wear and tear in the joints and increase the chances of tht many times. but if it happens after 50 then we should be fine because we would already be dying due to diabetes or heart attack or cancer or some  . just not 40 plz.

Can u pls post the link to the few researches that are there. It would be great for the community.

Cr7

[notatroll]

My local doctor told me I will develop premature arthritis due to this "barbaric" surgery. The nail introduced by the knee is EVEN WORSE. I have issues now (pain, limping, weird noises). It will become worse in my old age, my doctor told me

[IwannaBeTaller]

My local doctor told me I will develop premature arthritis due to this "barbaric" surgery. The nail introduced by the knee is EVEN WORSE. I have issues now (pain, limping, weird noises). It will become worse in my old age, my doctor told me

Sounds like a very unprofessional statement from your doctor. I don't know what kind of nail you had inserted in your surgery, but intramedullary rods are widely used in trauma surgery all over the world since the 1970s. Without this technique, many trauma patients could never recover and walk properly after their traumas. Limb lengthening is also used for limb length discrepancies worldwide and allows people to prevent long-term effects of unequally long limbs. How could a trained medical professional call this "barbaric"?

[Cr7]

Sounds like a very unprofessional statement from your doctor. I don't know what kind of nail you had inserted in your surgery, but intramedullary rods are widely used in trauma surgery all over the world since the 1970s. Without this technique, many trauma patients could never recover and walk properly after their traumas. Limb lengthening is also used for limb length discrepancies worldwide and allows people to prevent long-term effects of unequally long limbs. How could a trained medical professional call this "barbaric"?

your Statement regarding trauma is absolutely right. But leg Lengthening is altogether different than trauma, it’s the stretching of soft tissues ( nerves, arteries etc) that makes this surgery EXTREME if not barbaric. Sensible lengthening like 5-7 cm( I would prefer 5) will have less unpleasant after effects. With corrections in leg length discrepancies one can expect increased performance but with lengthening definitely it will be reduced even if it is like 5% of pre ll. There is definitely a trade off with ll that and the lentheners accept.

Cr7

[Apprehensive Finance]

I'm sorry you had a bad outcome, but the point I am disputing is that Arthritis is guaranteed. I'm not very worried because I went to a good doctor and my lengthening went really well. Obviously, not everyone will have a good outcome, but I think if you do have a good outcome and you don't over-lengthen the Tibia Arthritis is far from guaranteed.

[IwannaBeTaller]

your Statement regarding trauma is absolutely right. But leg Lengthening is altogether different than trauma, it’s the stretching of soft tissues ( nerves, arteries etc) that makes this surgery EXTREME if not barbaric. Sensible lengthening like 5-7 cm( I would prefer 5) will have less unpleasant after effects. With corrections in leg length discrepancies one can expect increased performance but with lengthening definitely it will be reduced even if it is like 5% of pre ll. There is definitely a trade off with ll that and the lentheners accept.

Cr7

I haven't seen any evidence that blood vessels like arteries are a concern for lengthening, am I wrong?
Okay, soft tissue isn't stretched for trauma patients, but is it not stretched for peoople who get LL for limb length discrepancy? After all, their shorter limb naturally grew to a shorter length, so wouldn't the muscles, tendons, etc. also have grown to accomodate the shorter length, not the length that the limb will have after lengtening? Confused right now.

[BeYourBest]

1-First of all there is lack of any conclusive data/study that could show whether CLL causes premature arthritis or not.
2- This surgery is relatively new so no one knows what will happen 20-40 years down the line. However I think that something would happen altering the natural anatomy of the body, just my thought though.
3- There are not many vets on this forum who have gone through CLL 10-15 years ago. Many old diaries are simply dead, apart from a few vets like Sweden, bodybuilder, oldiebutgoldie etc who sometimes update( thank you guys).
4- Few people who have done it quite sometime ago are Akash shukla (2003/2005), hajnal ban(2002, Australian woman), Mikhail goldreer( the first one to go through the elective CLL, Volgograd Russia, 1992), Thomas keeper( calagry real estate agent, Canada, 2005, guichet patient). These people went public about their surgery. I highly doubtful that they will come to this forum to provide info. Only these guys could tell about the long term effects of this surgery. Dates which I have mentioned might have a deviation of +/- 2 years.
5- @sanity how after CLL there is downgraded hormonal profile and that leads to arthritis?

Does anybody know how I can contact these guys on point 4? Would seriously like to know how they are doing. I really need to be complication free (as we all do). I mean I am willing to do anything that will help that. Stretches everyday, good diet, Ayurvedic stuff, yoga, breathing exercises, you name it! Until I die! Literally just to be pain free when and if I reach 70!

[Sanity]

Does anybody know how I can contact these guys on point 4? Would seriously like to know how they are doing. I really need to be complication free (as we all do). I mean I am willing to do anything that will help that. Stretches everyday, good diet, Ayurvedic stuff, yoga, breathing exercises, you name it! Until I die! Literally just to be pain free when and if I reach 70!

sometimes physical pain isnt the only problem but physical limitations. and yea i would love to talk to any of them. if u find the contact let me know.

[BeYourBest]

sometimes physical pain isnt the only problem but physical limitations. and yea i would love to talk to any of them. if u find the contact let me know.

I mean as long as those physical limitations do not impact my everyday life then I suppose I can live with it. I mean that as long as I can walk, jog. gym, have sex like a normal person without pain then great. I would not mind if I am not able to kick above a short guys chest because I don't think I can do that now and it does not bother me. Also, I think I would be okay with not being able to sprint as fast as I could pre surgery. I don't think I've sprinted properly for years anyways and I would change the way I play football. I think I'd be more of a Pirlo like player and just control the game instead of running around like a Walcott (big football fan here lol)! 

I will do.

[Sanity]

I mean as long as those physical limitations do not impact my everyday life then I suppose I can live with it. I mean that as long as I can walk, jog. gym, have sxx like a normal person without pain then great. I would not mind if I am not able to kick above a short guys chest because I don't think I can do that now and it does not bother me. Also, I think I would be okay with not being able to sprint as fast as I could pre surgery. I don't think I've sprinted properly for years anyways and I would change the way I play football. I think I'd be more of a Pirlo like player and just control the game instead of running around like a Walcott (big football fan here lol)! 

I will do.

that is the ideal scenario. every ll aspirant desires that not just u.