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[Golden]

Hello,

As it says, How long have you been on them frames? I'm referring to pure externals, so no LON or LATN.

When did you remove them?

I'm now considering Giotikas in Athens to fix bowlegs and gain about 5 cm.

I am not willing to go under LON or LATN as it's soo bad on the knee.

Thanks

[Charizard]

If you have that, you need to carry that frames minimum a year around your legs you know it right?

[Golden]

Oops, are you really sure? Why should it be that long? Am not going to remove them after the consolidation phase, something like 6 months after surgery, no?

[Charizard]

Oops, are you really sure? Why should it be that long? Am not going to remove them after the consolidation phase, something like 6 months after surgery, no?

I mean approximately 6-12 months depending on how many cm you want i guess. Im not sure but i would not want to have those frames around my legs for that long to be honest.

[Golden]

I'm willing to fix bowlegs and get 5 cm, do you think that 6 months on the frames is a fair enough time? I really don't want to get chronic knee pain by using LON or LATN methods.

[Michael J. Assayag, MD]

I'm willing to fix bowlegs and get 5 cm, do you think that 6 months on the frames is a fair enough time? I really don't want to get chronic knee pain by using LON or LATN methods.

expect 9 months. Everytime i do this, it takes 9 months.

theres also the option of lengthening and then nailing (LATN) but it will increase the cost drastically if you are not covered by insurance.

[Golden]

expect 9 months. Everytime i do this, it takes 9 months.

theres also the option of lengthening and then nailing (LATN) but it will increase the cost drastically if you are not covered by insurance.

Thanks!

But why should it be 9 months?! As I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the consolidation phase takes only 3 months same as the distraction phase in case of 5cm lengthening, so the patient could remove the frames 6 months after op.

I really feel confused and depressed as 9 months is just too much.

[Golden]

expect 9 months. Everytime i do this, it takes 9 months.

theres also the option of lengthening and then nailing (LATN) but it will increase the cost drastically if you are not covered by insurance.

Hey Doc,

How much does it cost to do it with you?

[TheDream]

Do pure external frames offer any weighbearing? As in, can you move with a walker or do you have to move in a wheelchair until you are consolidated?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Full weight bearing for rings.  That's a bit questionable for monorails.

[TheDream]

Full weight bearing for rings.  That's a bit questionable for monorails.

Okay interesting, so with Ilizarov or TFS you have full weight bearing ability, and can move around (with some support for balance id suppose)?

[Golden]

Full weight bearing for rings.  That's a bit questionable for monorails.

Yes, I'm willing to have TSF as external fixator. I think that is what you did, right? then LATN, no?

Were you able to shower while having those frames?

[Medium Drink Of Water]

It was LON with Ilizarov rings.

You can shower with them on but I recommend against it.  I refused to take a shower because I was worried about pinsite infections.  I never got a single one.

[Golden]

It was LON with Ilizarov rings.

You can shower with them on but I recommend against it.  I refused to take a shower because I was worried about pinsite infections.  I never got a single one.

I see, how long have you been wearing those fixators? Did you get any infection? How many times you were changing the bandages? were you doing it yourself?

Thanks a lot.

[Golden]

Also, were you able to walk with the fixators as normal? going outside too?

About the infection's fears, what happens if you get touched by water? What do you need to do to prevent any infection?

[slowed & reverb]

I was actually curious about "frames only" and asked Livelifetaller why not even they offer it and their reply was shortly: big physio problem when you do stretching, infection problems and the worst thing is that you could develop a bone deformity easily, that was the main reason they had to cancel this method. So it seems like this method is so bad even butchers resent it. If you thnk about it, you will be having constant pain for 9+ months.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I see, how long have you been wearing those fixators? Did you get any infection? How many times you were changing the bandages? were you doing it yourself?

Thanks a lot.

Finished in 2007.  Wore for 5 months (LON).  No infection.  No bandages, just let the scabs form as in this picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilizarov_apparatus#/media/File:Ilizarov4.jpg

Also, were you able to walk with the fixators as normal? going outside too?

About the infection's fears, what happens if you get touched by water? What do you need to do to prevent any infection?

No way could I walk as normal.  It was a struggle even with a walker.

My thinking was that water could carry bacteria into the wounds.  Best to leave the wounds alone in my opinion.

I was actually curious about "frames only" and asked Livelifetaller...

There's where you went wrong.

[Golden]

I was actually curious about "frames only" and asked Livelifetaller why not even they offer it and their reply was shortly: big physio problem when you do stretching, infection problems and the worst thing is that you could develop a bone deformity easily, that was the main reason they had to cancel this method. So it seems like this method is so bad even butchers resent it. If you thnk about it, you will be having constant pain for 9+ months.

You literally went to ask people that have no idea about deformity cases and devices. As I know, the external fixator they use is extremely dangerous and you gonna ended up with a deformity at the end rather than the TSF device that is supposed to fix the most deformity cases.

As for LON/LATN, you ended up doing two surgeries on the same bone which isn't fun to me. Also, it has some complications later, especially on the knee which I'm suffering from already.

As a final note, those people that you went to ask do that external fixator (with LON) just because it's easier than putting a TSF fixator which top doctors use and it's very complex to deal with but it's so accurate to fix any deformity.

I wish I was wrong.

[Golden]

Finished in 2007.  Wore for 5 months (LON).  No infection.  No bandages, just let the scabs form as in this picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilizarov_apparatus#/media/File:Ilizarov4.jpg

No way could I walk as normal.  It was a struggle even with a walker.

My thinking was that water could carry bacteria into the wounds.  Best to leave the wounds alone in my opinion.

There's where you went wrong.

That was tough. How about lengthening less than 3-4 cm, a 6 months mark should be enough for full external fixator?

As for the bandage, I think it's extremely important, I see many doctors use it as well to prevent any infection but yeah infection comes anyway.

How about PT, would you able to do it normally as internal patients?

So you were using a walker all the way (5 months)? Sounds horrible.

[slowed & reverb]

I meant the holyfix method, they never used the citrcular frames like TSF nor Ilizarov.

[Golden]

I meant the holyfix method, they never used the citrcular frames like TSF nor Ilizarov.

Because they don't care if you get a deformity, also the TSF frame isn't easy to deal with, the doctor needs to do some adjustments from time to time.