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[Medium Drink Of Water]

I've seen this being discussed in other threads on other subjects, so I'm making a new thread here dedicated to it.

I think CLL would not get cheaper in the west by much, if at all, if more people knew about it.  Someplace it was quite well known was China in 2007.  The Chinese doctors at Guang Ji Hospital had a patient assembly line going.  So many people were trained to do one specific job in an efficient system, and they were able to do 4-6 surgeries a day there in one operating room.

This isn't how medicine is practiced in the west, especially not in America.  The red tape that exists here would make the Guang Ji model impossible to pull off.  Medicine in America is slow, cumbersome, and expensive.  Everyone's worried about getting sued.  So much documentation and administrative bureaucracy is required to keep a medical practice going.  As of now cosmetic surgeons are doing very well for themselves charging more money to fewer people, while minimizing the risk of lawsuits and without stepping on anyone else's toes.

If CLL got really popular in America, I think the price might actually go up.  The standards for workers are much higher here, and not many people can measure up.  There's already a shortage of workers and facilities.  Cosmetic practices would need to attract employees away from the illness/injury ones, who could raise their prices without limit because insurance companies would pay whatever the going rate was for their patients who needed treatment.  Many of those workers got into healthcare because they wanted to help sick people, not just to make money, so they might not even be interested as a matter of principle.

And in Europe with the socialist model, the governments might even get involved if the cosmetic orthopedic market was horning in on illness/injury resources too much.

[chasing_higher_dream]

I've seen this being discussed in other threads on other subjects, so I'm making a new thread here dedicated to it.

I think CLL would not get cheaper in the west by much, if at all, if more people knew about it.  Someplace it was quite well known was China in 2007.  The Chinese doctors at Guang Ji Hospital had a patient assembly line going.  So many people were trained to do one specific job in an efficient system, and they were able to do 4-6 surgeries a day there in one operating room.

This isn't how medicine is practiced in the west, especially not in America.  The red tape that exists here would make the Guang Ji model impossible to pull off.  Medicine in America is slow, cumbersome, and expensive.  Everyone's worried about getting sued.  So much documentation and administrative bureaucracy is required to keep a medical practice going.  As of now cosmetic surgeons are doing very well for themselves charging more money to fewer people, while minimizing the risk of lawsuits and without stepping on anyone else's toes.

If CLL got really popular in America, I think the price might actually go up.  The standards for workers are much higher here, and not many people can measure up.  There's already a shortage of workers and facilities.  Cosmetic practices would need to attract employees away from the illness/injury ones, who could raise their prices without limit because insurance companies would pay whatever the going rate was for their patients who needed treatment.  Many of those workers got into healthcare because they wanted to help sick people, not just to make money, so they might not even be interested as a matter of principle.

And in Europe with the socialist model, the governments might even get involved if the cosmetic orthopedic market was horning in on illness/injury resources too much.

I second you on this. There is a high chance here in Germany that if the government finds out that it is affecting the medical system in a negative way and they foresee that these LL patients may consume higher medical resources in foreseeable future, then definitely this surgery would be banned just this like China. But this surgery is still under the radar, and is not widely known!

Also, in terms of surgery cost, the price of this surgery has definitely gone up and will continue to go on. Example: Dr. Betz charged around €40,000 as fees around 10-15 years back. But now he charges almost €54,000.

[BelowTheMean]

Yeah, agreed. In the US this can only get more expensive. Plenty of people are willing to pay $80-100K now and the surgeons seem to have sufficient volume at this price. As their own costs go up the surgeons aren't going to charge less. Don't forget these surgeons have to do the surgeries in hospital facilities. The hospitals literally have contracts with the insurance company stipulating that rates will go up by X% (maybe 4-8%) per year. The surgeons also have to pay these costs and can only pass them onto patients to keep their businesses running.

[onlywantafewcmmore]

So the solution is to go elsewhere then to have the surgery. Doesnt mean cheaper will be worse necessarily

[Polvorón]

IMHO this surgery will be available at cheaper prices if the popularity increases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects
Maybe not in the USA, but in other countries can get cheaper (and maybe a better quality because they get more experience, just like it's happening with semiconductor industry, having cheaper prices doesn't mean having a worse quality).

About regulations, I think that a too restrict regulation could make things worse, because people will request this surgery in the black market, even a Ilizarov apparatus is very easy to manufacture (again, a too restrict regulation will be worse for the country that does it, because good surgeons will go to other countries).
https://www.jlimblengthrecon.org/article.asp?issn=2455-3719;year=2017;volume=3;issue=2;spage=73;epage=74;aulast=Patel
It's better to give people a good information, to accept that not everyone likes to be short and request surgeons to do this procedure well. There are more dangerous surgeries and society accepts them well. The problem of this surgery is that being tall would stop being a "nature gift for privileged people", but society will evolve.

[Activatedxx]

I've seen this being discussed in other threads on other subjects, so I'm making a new thread here dedicated to it.

I think CLL would not get cheaper in the west by much, if at all, if more people knew about it.  Someplace it was quite well known was China in 2007.  The Chinese doctors at Guang Ji Hospital had a patient assembly line going.  So many people were trained to do one specific job in an efficient system, and they were able to do 4-6 surgeries a day there in one operating room.

This isn't how medicine is practiced in the west, especially not in America.  The red tape that exists here would make the Guang Ji model impossible to pull off.  Medicine in America is slow, cumbersome, and expensive.  Everyone's worried about getting sued.  So much documentation and administrative bureaucracy is required to keep a medical practice going.  As of now cosmetic surgeons are doing very well for themselves charging more money to fewer people, while minimizing the risk of lawsuits and without stepping on anyone else's toes.

If CLL got really popular in America, I think the price might actually go up.  The standards for workers are much higher here, and not many people can measure up.  There's already a shortage of workers and facilities.  Cosmetic practices would need to attract employees away from the illness/injury ones, who could raise their prices without limit because insurance companies would pay whatever the going rate was for their patients who needed treatment.  Many of those workers got into healthcare because they wanted to help sick people, not just to make money, so they might not even be interested as a matter of principle.

And in Europe with the socialist model, the governments might even get involved if the cosmetic orthopedic market was horning in on illness/injury resources too much.

Once the patent on the nails finishes its game over. Someone will manufacture another nail, possibly in the USA it won’t go down much because of the medical system being way over priced, but you can already get stryde in Greece and other places from good surgeons for like 45-50k. I see the price for something like stryde dropping down to 35-40k within another 5 years ( take into account inflation). Plus if it’s more popular their will be more financing options for it. It’s not the price that stops people necessarily, it’s there’s no financing. You can finance a 50-100k car but definitely not your leg lengthening.

However I doubt it will be a norm in society, maybe it’ll be more known of but average height people of average height and up are seldom going to ever volunteer breaking their legs, not to mention the fact that like 50% of Americans can’t cover a 500$ emergency expense.

Get real we live in the real world, I think less than 0.01 of short people get LL
You can still be short and have a happy life most people do to be honest.

[TruthBomber]

I think it's really good that surgery is expensive, painful and hard to pull off.

It mean's most people will never get it. If it was accessible to everyone that would be awful as competition would increase drastically.

[Polvorón]

I agree, people should be unhappy and forced to live in a body that they don't feel good.
Only rich people should be happy, poor people, not, they should suffer.

Note: I'm sarcastic.

[Activatedxx]

I agree, people should be unhappy and forced to live in a body that they don't feel good.
Only rich people should be happy, poor people, not, they should suffer.

Note: I'm sarcastic.

At the moment either you have the money for it or you pay with torture & tears as I am and other patients who use externals. Sure I could afford stryde femurs, but then their goes my savings that took me 4 years to build

[Stretch]

At the moment either you have the money for it or you pay with torture & tears as I am and other patients who use externals. Sure I could afford stryde femurs, but then their goes my savings that took me 4 years to build

so true, what to do... what to do

[KiloKAHN]

Even if CLL is lucrative, most orthopedic surgeons will not take the time or spend the effort required to become experts in all the intricacies of Ilizarov's principles of distraction. That requires additional years of focus in a subspecialty that on average makes doctors less money than getting into knee replacement surgery and calling it a day. Most orthopedic surgeons will know the general principles of how it works, but without that extra subspecialty training, most won't know about important things like fibula fixation, where to place the pins to avoid damaging nerves, where and what angle to insert the nail to avoid misalignment, etc. That's not even getting into the situation where a doc has a patient with a complication they've never actually treated before and they're at a loss as to how to treat it and need to refer you to someone else.

Few doctors are actually getting into this specialty of orthopedics and the number of doctors retiring is going to go up, so fewer doctors are going to be able to safely offer you this service, despite the advertising for it going up. Then when more people start having bad results by going to amateurs, this surgery will just be more exposed to the general public, but with more negative attention.

My 2 cents.

[1683131665]

It is a pity that the Chinese government banned the operation. Only some doctors operate in stealth. And there is little rehabilitation. If the surgery hadn't been banned. I believe China will become the center of the world for limb extension.



I once interviewed doctors in the best orthopedic hospital in China. Doctors there handle many bone lengthening operations a day. From bone defects caused by car accidents to being born with dwarfism. It's a piece of cake for them to do bone lengthening in normal people.



Except for major holidays, almost every day to do three operations.