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[Alittletooshort]

Should be, for sure. But when you are breaking and stretching limbs you never know

How is your recovery going? Sprinting, explosiveness, vertical leap etc.
Edit: An 8cm height gain is impossible I believe (with the precise), do you know the exact number of cm´s and mm´s you´ve gained?

[YellowSpike]

How is your recovery going? Sprinting, explosiveness, vertical leap etc.
Edit: An 8cm height gain is impossible I believe (with the precise), do you know the exact number of cm´s and mm´s you´ve gained?

In his case, exact gain is less important. I've met PD and he looks comfortably tall. No woman would ever have an issue with his height.

[TIBIKE200]

In his case, exact gain is less important. I've met PD and he looks comfortably tall. No woman would ever have an issue with his height.

He is 180 now no?

[Alittletooshort]

In his case, exact gain is less important. I've met PD and he looks comfortably tall. No woman would ever have an issue with his height.

The reason I was asking for an exact number, is that I´m still undecided weither I should do tibia or femur. One reason I´m leaning towards tibial lengthening is that it´s more "efficient" in terms of real height gains.
The femur has a curvature of approx. 7% so 8cm´s x 0.93 would result in a 6mm loss for 8cm´s, I just don´t know If my math is correct.

[YellowSpike]

The reason I was asking for an exact number, is that I´m still undecided weither I should do tibia or femur. One reason I´m leaning towards tibial lengthening is that it´s more "efficient" in terms of real height gains.
The femur has a curvature of approx. 7% so 8cm´s x 0.93 would result in a 6mm loss for 8cm´s, I just don´t know If my math is correct.

I don't know. I was 166, did 7cm and usually measure 173 at night, sometimes even as much as 173.3. I only know that the Gnail gives more than what you click. My X-rays showed a gap of I believe 8.4cm, minus 1 for X-ray discrepancy and I did around 7.3/7.4cm and seemed to have actually gained 7.

[applesandoranges]

The reason I was asking for an exact number, is that I´m still undecided weither I should do tibia or femur. One reason I´m leaning towards tibial lengthening is that it´s more "efficient" in terms of real height gains.
The femur has a curvature of approx. 7% so 8cm´s x 0.93 would result in a 6mm loss for 8cm´s, I just don´t know If my math is correct.

Although milometer for milometer Tibia lengthening is more efficient, the femur can withstand an overall longer lengthening due to its longer length. Another issue with tibia LL is that both the Tibia bone AND the fibula bone is broken. From my consultation with a top LL doctor, non-union of the fibula is common, but the doctor said it makes no practical difference when walking, doing daily activities. However personally I would like to keep it in tact because it's just weird to have 2 bones sticking out in your lower legs. Also, there have been debates about Achilles tendon lengthening which may or may not apply for 3-4cm. Nonetheless, still a risk factor due to apparently a weaker leg after ATL.

After weighing all the pros and cons, I'm actually leaning towards internal femurs now for a smaller amount like yourself. The only issue is that there will be a a milometer of mechanical axis deviation for every 1cm lengthened. So for 3-4cm, the mechanical axis is deviated by about 3-4mm. Which may or may not be an issue. I don't think I've heard any instances yet of problems due to this, even from people who've lengthening 5cm+.

[applesandoranges]

I don't know. I was 166, did 7cm and usually measure 173 at night, sometimes even as much as 173.3. I only know that the Gnail gives more than what you click. My X-rays showed a gap of I believe 8.4cm, minus 1 for X-ray discrepancy and I did around 7.3/7.4cm and seemed to have actually gained 7.

Is the mechanical axis deviation bothering you at all? Any pain in the knees? You must have around 7mm deviation which actually seems big.

[Alittletooshort]

Although milometer for milometer Tibia lengthening is more efficient, the femur can withstand an overall longer lengthening due to its longer length. Another issue with tibia LL is that both the Tibia bone AND the fibula bone is broken. From my consultation with a top LL doctor, non-union of the fibula is common, but the doctor said it makes no practical difference when walking, doing daily activities. However personally I would like to keep it in tact because it's just weird to have 2 bones sticking out in your lower legs. Also, there have been debates about Achilles tendon lengthening which may or may not apply for 3-4cm. Nonetheless, still a risk factor due to apparently a weaker leg after ATL.

After weighing all the pros and cons, I'm actually leaning towards internal femurs now for a smaller amount like yourself. The only issue is that there will be a a milometer of mechanical axis deviation for every 1cm lengthened. So for 3-4cm, the mechanical axis is deviated by about 3-4mm. Which may or may not be an issue. I don't think I've heard any instances yet of problems due to this, even from people who've lengthening 5cm+.

The axis devaiation bothers me as well, I haven´t seen any long term studies on that topic. Perhaps the axis deviation is something serious long term but we just don´t know yet.
Now that monegal is off my list Birkholtz is the only LL Doc that in my budget atm so the price for internals is also an issue for me.

[KiloKAHN]

The axis devaiation bothers me as well, I haven´t seen any long term studies on that topic. Perhaps the axis deviation is something serious long term but we just don´t know yet.
Now that monegal is off my list Birkholtz is the only LL Doc that in my budget atm so the price for internals is also an issue for me.

The axis deviation could be something that's overblown. Paley is supposed to have released a study that should alleviate these concerns (I haven't read it yet) and my own surgeon read the article about mechanical axis deviation and said that there were problems with it.

"Lot of potential problems with that article. It's a good hypothesis, but far from being proven yet. There are other articles that have shown the opposite (that there is no real change in the mechanical axis.)
        a. They did not correlate the length achieved with the amount of axis deviation. If there is a cause-effect relationship, one should be able to show a positive correlation.
        b. One patient actually moved in the opposite direction (medial axis deviation).
        c. They state in the article that "Because of the potential for errors in measurement or radiological magnification, the data were analysed by considering a total shift in mechanical axis deviation of ≤ 2 mm to be inconsequential. With this assumption, further analysis of these 26 limbs showed that 15 limbs had an insignificant total lateral change in mechanical axis deviation of ≤ 2 mm”. i.e. >50% of the limbs did not have a significant change in the mechanical axis.
        d. The correct comparison would be the immediate postoperative Axis, and the 6 month postoperative axis - because the surgery itself (osteotomy and insertion of the nail) may change the axis."

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2783.0

[Bruno Mars]

I honestly don't need more than 3 cm and I figured I would alter my body and proportions as little as possible while still going from a bit short to average.

All I want is to reach a decent normal height so I can fit in with my peers. Being tall is a luxury and I can manage without it.

This guy is smart and he will be successful in life. You go with one of the best out there within the optimal amount of lengthening (3-4cm) I remember old forum  himself did 4 cm and he came back to play football as before. Not to mentioned he did external tibias.

[Bruno Mars]

You genuinely don't believe that you'd be better off with +60k in the bank and the ability to put in 2 years of hard work at the gym, compared to +3cm of height and being crippled for the same amount of time? Really?

I have a suggestion by the way. If you're worried about your wing span because of your back, why not spend a year getting yourself into optimum shape. Build a broader back. It will take at least a year of solid work. Then you will be ready for LL if it's still needed.

You could always make that 60k, but you can never get back time. The sooner he does LL the more profits he could get from it. 3-4 cms is completely reasonable if he wants to be recovered 100% and in stay in good proportion. I dont understand why many of you have the need to calculate how much money you spend per cm Lol Its so irrelevant. The point of this operation is to improve your mentality. Whatever amount makes you feel good is worth the money spent.

[Average2Tall]

You could always make that 60k, but you can never get back time. The sooner he does LL the more profits he could get from it. 3-4 cms is completely reasonable if he wants to be recovered 100% and in stay in good proportion. I dont understand why many of you have the need to calculate how much money you spend per cm Lol Its so irrelevant. The point of this operation is to improve your mentality. Whatever amount makes you feel good is worth the money spent.

Straight up! What matters it's your personal goal and limiting complications. 3-4 cm is relatively small but at the same time you guys are totally bashing him for such small number but those extra 2 cm are usually where the complications arise. To hell with money spent per cm, this is someone's well being and a personal risk which he will endure on his own, so whatever he decide's it's for his own happiness, i would take the safe number over the so called magical height anytime to be honest.

[Alu]

Straight up! What matters it's your personal goal and limiting complications. 3-4 cm is relatively small but at the same time you guys are totally bashing him for such small number but those extra 2 cm are usually where the complications arise. To hell with money spent per cm, this is someone's well being and a personal risk which he will endure on his own, so whatever he decide's it's for his own happiness, i would take the safe number over the so called magical height anytime to be honest.

Not about cost per CM. It's overall cost. You guys are easy to forget that there can be complications that aren't limited to how much you lengthen. In truth besides the height gain, you're also paying to be crippled for months on end, and within that period of time you might end up in an accident, however minor it may be, which could result in long term complications:

You slip while using your crutches and hit your legs hard, BAM the nail is bent, the muscles and bones are destroyed along with any possible tendons. This surgery journey isn't a given. And you start it by paying a fixed,  -load of money you aren't getting back.

[pablo1989]

The reason I was asking for an exact number, is that I´m still undecided weither I should do tibia or femur. One reason I´m leaning towards tibial lengthening is that it´s more "efficient" in terms of real height gains.
The femur has a curvature of approx. 7% so 8cm´s x 0.93 would result in a 6mm loss for 8cm´s, I just don´t know If my math is correct.

You are wrong. 7% angle means that your loose of height will be 8cm x (1- cos(7%)) wich is 8 cm x (1 - 0.99755100025) = 0.02 cm so it's 0.2 mm loss which is nothing.

[YellowSpike]

You are wrong. 7% angle means that your loose of height will be 8cm x (1- cos(7%)) wich is 8 cm x (1 - 0.99755100025) = 0.02 cm so it's 0.2 mm loss which is nothing.

Yeah I think the femur angle thing is negligible. In my personal experience, my x-rays showed an 8.3/8.4cm gap, so minus 1cm (x-rays inflate by about that much), I actually lengthened let's say 7.2cm. My actual height gain (based on evening height), seems to be right about 7cm. I was 166 per Dr. G and another doctor in Milan who measured me (both in the evening after I'd been up, the gym, active), and now my evening height right before bed is usually dead on 173 (sometimes a tad over).

[Bruno Mars]

Not about cost per CM. It's overall cost. You guys are easy to forget that there can be complications that aren't limited to how much you lengthen. In truth besides the height gain, you're also paying to be crippled for months on end, and within that period of time you might end up in an accident, however minor it may be, which could result in long term complications:

You slip while using your crutches and hit your legs hard, BAM the nail is bent, the muscles and bones are destroyed along with any possible tendons. This surgery journey isn't a given. And you start it by paying a fixed, crap-load of money you aren't getting back.

Yeah, but the chance of getting these complications/accidents increase along with your amount of lengthening. The fact that complications could happen even for people lengthen less than 5 cm does not justify the amount of lengthening because statistically speaking the odd of that happen is much lower than someone who does 7 cms. Its like saying that you could lose your legs doing this surgery, therefore you shouldn't do it at all. Being said, its quite the opposite of what you said, the more you lengthen, the more money you will spend on foods, rent, physio therapy, surgeries to fix complications.... While someone who does 3-4 cms could save those extra expenses and going back to work and start re-earning money. If you are too short (less than 1m65) and want to get to average, then I understand the risk that you are willing to take to do 7+. In the case of Uppland, he just needs a few more cms to be average and he is completely fine with it so why should he take the risks.

[Bruno Mars]

m

[TIBIKE200]

I am sorry. But every single guy here who say that this 178-179 swedish guy is smart/conservative/ know what he is doing, just because he is doing 3-4cm at the most is an idiot.

You guys forget one crucial thing. He is 178-179cm tall. Nothing more to add

[CCMidwest]

Biggest player I've ever known is 5'10. Dude can pull sloots out of the walls I swear.

Richest man I've ever known is 5'9

If you are 5'9+...suck it up, butter cup

I am sorry. But every single guy here who say that this 178-179 swedish guy is smart/conservative/ know what he is doing, just because he is doing 3-4cm at the most is an idiot.

You guys forget one crucial thing. He is 178-179cm tall. Nothing more to add

[pricess]

I am sorry. But every single guy here who say that this 178-179 swedish guy is smart/conservative/ know what he is doing, just because he is doing 3-4cm at the most is an idiot.

You guys forget one crucial thing. He is 178-179cm tall. Nothing more to add

Never! !!!!!!!!
Your Life is not depend on cm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
These operations will destroy your life for everything and will make Rich ONLY the doctor
Iunfotunatly did it.

m

[Peaceout]

Never! !!!!!!!!
Your Life is not depend on cm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
These operations will destroy your life for everything and will make Rich ONLY the doctor
Iunfotunatly did it.

Tell us more about your experience please.

[Bruno Mars]

I am sorry. But every single guy here who say that this 178-179 swedish guy is smart/conservative/ know what he is doing, just because he is doing 3-4cm at the most is an idiot.

You guys forget one crucial thing. He is 178-179cm tall. Nothing more to add

That is your personal opinion. At the same time, there will be plenty of 5'6 and 5'7 people out there saying that people at their height are idiots for even thinking about this surgery. Upperland is smart because he knows the downsides of this surgery. All of his posts are very constructive and made with well thoughts, unlike some idiots jump in here saying that they will do 15+ cms in 2 surgeries and turns out fine. 4-5 cm is absolutely the optimal amount to aim for if you want to comeback as close to your condition pre-op. Financially speaking,  It would be unreasonable had he lived in a 3rd world country and made $10k/year. But it does seems that he could afford the money, so why not do it. And more importantly, Sweden is the land of tall people. Sweden(the LL patient) did 7cm to be 1m8, got his legs screwed up, still he wants to get another 5 cms. If Uppland did 4cm, he will most likely recover 95%, no complications, never have to worry about his proportion, and most importantly he could claim his height to be average at where he lives.

[TIBIKE200]

That is your personal opinion. At the same time, there will be plenty of 5'6 and 5'7 people out there saying that people at their height are idiots for even thinking about this surgery. Upperland is smart because he knows the downsides of this surgery. All of his posts are very constructive and made with well thoughts, unlike some idiots jump in here saying that they will do 15+ cms in 2 surgeries and turns out fine. 4-5 cm is absolutely the optimal amount to aim for if you want to comeback as close to your condition pre-op. Financially speaking,  It would be unreasonable had he lived in a 3rd world country and made $10k/year. But it does seems that he could afford the money, so why not do it. And more importantly, Sweden is the land of tall people. Sweden(the LL patient) did 7cm to be 1m8, got his legs screwed up, still he wants to get another 5 cms. If Uppland did 4cm, he will most likely recover 95%, no complications, never have to worry about his proportion, and most importantly he could claim his height to be average at where he lives.

Iwannabwgiant did 4.5cm. went into 178-179 and he is happy. Ohhh he is Swedish

[Average2Tall]

Not about cost per CM. It's overall cost. You guys are easy to forget that there can be complications that aren't limited to how much you lengthen. In truth besides the height gain, you're also paying to be crippled for months on end, and within that period of time you might end up in an accident, however minor it may be, which could result in long term complications:

You slip while using your crutches and hit your legs hard, BAM the nail is bent, the muscles and bones are destroyed along with any possible tendons. This surgery journey isn't a given. And you start it by paying a fixed, crap-load of money you aren't getting back.

The cost doesn't matter for people with the means and the will to set the budget for this journey/surgery as long as they are well educated about it and most importantly to be certain that this is what they want.
Regarding the complications, we all know this procedure is not complication free and this can happen in any stage of the lengthening process but its well known too the less you lengthen the less chances of complications.......so we are talking deduction of risk which IMHO i think it favors Uppland, him being average he will need less cms compared to someone who will lengthen up to 8 cms.
We are all here because we somehow share a similar goal but it's also funny the same height discrimination we face in our communities gets reversed and now the average guys are getting bullied by rather shorter guys by oppressing their needs for this surgery sound pointless,but let me tell you something....even a guy with a 10 inch dck has other insecurities let it be baldness, bad breath e.t.c Why is it more important for some and not others? A Chinese average man is rather shorter than an average Dutch guy so if these guys need a surgery, should the Dutch not be given a priority since he is taller than the Chinese guy? These needs are driven by our cultures mostly so we shouldn't forget about that either before bashing someone's need after having a moment of comparison and assuming less means more or rather more means less. If he want's the surgery he should do it rather than regretting for the rest of his life for something which he had a chance to fix on his own way, in his country he might be a small guy so what's the point telling him '' You know back in India, you are a very tall guy'',....yeah right, he aint living in India, so what does that do him any good? We adapt to our surroundings, that's that or we should all renounce our passports and look for the countries with the shortest demographic and enjoy lack of height discrimination. What matters to you might not matter to me but that doesn't give me the right to judge or rather take your needs lightly.

[programdude]

Also its important to note that your satisfaction with recovery will heavily depend on what you do in your life. If you don't do sports/run I'd assume almost everyone going with a good dr. will be happy- As I've said before, pretty much everyone I've met very quickly returned to even sports with 6-8 CM of lengthening. Personally, if I had wanted to be athletic post LL, it would have been the gravest mistake of my life, but given that it wasnt a priority I am pretty happy with where I am on that front(able to run in shorter bursts, and walk normally), though it is important to note it took me very long to recover to that point, so people who have jobs or a strict schedule should always be really careful.

Its important to be realistic on every front of LL- How much it will cost/if you can actually afford it, how happy it will actually make you/if you will be satisfied, how long recovery will take, if you will be able to keep it a secret from friends/family/work if that matters to you, and what the permanent effects may be.

[Average2Tall]

Also its important to note that your satisfaction with recovery will heavily depend on what you do in your life. If you don't do sports/run I'd assume almost everyone going with a good dr. will be happy- As I've said before, pretty much everyone I've met very quickly returned to even sports with 6-8 CM of lengthening. Personally, if I had wanted to be athletic post LL, it would have been the gravest mistake of my life, but given that it wasnt a priority I am pretty happy with where I am on that front(able to run in shorter bursts, and walk normally), though it is important to note it took me very long to recover to that point, so people who have jobs or a strict schedule should always be really careful.

Its important to be realistic on every front of LL- How much it will cost/if you can actually afford it, how happy it will actually make you/if you will be satisfied, how long recovery will take, if you will be able to keep it a secret from friends/family/work if that matters to you, and what the permanent effects may be.

Exactly! Of course there are few people i would rather call them careless or irresponsible who can have the budget but still fail to contemplate the extremity of this surgery e.g Leechlet ( I followed this kid for quite some time but there was so much holes in his lifestyle which interfered with his consolidation) That is why we have such forums and supposed to book for appointments with the recommended doctors to shade some lights regarding the procedure before jumping to a plan to unknown destinations to get a cheap CLL.

But in the end our needs are geographically based, a Chinese guy wouldn't feel pressured to be 6 ft compared to a below average Dutch. So this leads to a more variety in the CLL market compared to before when LL was limited to dwarfs and below averages. Some people might appear like they want more but if you put yourself in their shoes you will understand they just want to fit in as others.