Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Thatdude950]

While plenty of other members are preparing for or documenting their second surgeries - whether due to complications, or persistent height neurosis. Good luck to those struggling, I can't imagine how hard it is. It's all just words on a screen to me while you're the ones living it. I hope you make full recoveries.

But if you're on the fence re: LL ... take your money and run.

[theuprising]

I find your presence on this forum interesting as a guy who is 5'11 attempting to convince short people not to have LL. What brought you to this crusade and why do you care?

I don't believe your going to change any minds for those on here due to the height neurosis of the people who frequent these boards, the real barrier for most people when it comes to getting LL is the money and time, there have been horror stories for years and this surgery is becoming more popular.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

He's only 5'11 and doesn't want the short people on here to catch up to him.

[Thatdude950]

Yeah, I'm 5'11 but there's at least 2 members here my height that have done LL so what's the point?

As you say - LL is becoming more popular. Before, the goal of the forum seemed to be mostly support. I get that. But now that the procedure is becoming more popular, and there's more people on the fence just thinking about it, it's in their interest for someone to go against the grain and post reality checks. I'm not on a crusade but felt compelled to post something, simple as that.

[Alu]

Yeah, I'm 5'11 but there's at least 2 members here my height that have done LL so what's the point?

As you say - LL is becoming more popular. Before, the goal of the forum seemed to be mostly support. I get that. But now that the procedure is becoming more popular, and there's more people on the fence just thinking about it, it's in their interest for someone to go against the grain and post reality checks. I'm not on a crusade but felt compelled to post something, simple as that.

I understand where you are coming from; as much as we all here understand the risk we are taking with this surgery. This isn't a simple cosmetic procedure like a nose job: we all know that. If it was it would be one of the most popular and mainstream surgeries out there (like if a magic pill increased your height it would sell like nothing before).

May of us, myself included see it as an investment (and perhaps a bitter pill) for our lives in the future. There's just simply a lot of emotional things going on in the background. Some fear a life of invisibility, social exclusion. Our height neurosis goes to very deep levels. Had I not found LL I honestly don't know what I've be working to in college and my work. Don't get me twisted, I don't have a miserable life by any means; I have plenty of friends and loved ones (although I'm not ready to commit to anyone so I'm not actively looking for someone). But I've never been to confident in my body and how I'm perceived to the rest of the world, and looking into the future at my current height it seems so bleak and pointless. Another way to look at it is that we at least hope that it can remove huge burdens: a social one and a psychological one. The social one being that we don't get either ignored or ridiculed for something we never had control. And the psychological one of always feeling like you're not as good as others or so forth.

Take my comment as you will (I'm a little to sleepy and tired as I'm typing this); as either an emotional ramble or a vague logical attempt to make you understand. Either way, I can at least appreciate that you're reminding me how crazy this is, but I'm still gonna push through. 

[alps]

who is considering amputation?

[Thatdude950]

I understand where you are coming from; as much as we all here understand the risk we are taking with this surgery. This isn't a simple cosmetic procedure like a nose job: we all know that. If it was it would be one of the most popular and mainstream surgeries out there (like if a magic pill increased your height it would sell like nothing before).

May of us, myself included see it as an investment (and perhaps a bitter pill) for our lives in the future. There's just simply a lot of emotional things going on in the background. Some fear a life of invisibility, social exclusion. Our height neurosis goes to very deep levels. Had I not found LL I honestly don't know what I've be working to in college and my work. Don't get me twisted, I don't have a miserable life by any means; I have plenty of friends and loved ones (although I'm not ready to commit to anyone so I'm not actively looking for someone). But I've never been to confident in my body and how I'm perceived to the rest of the world, and looking into the future at my current height it seems so bleak and pointless. Another way to look at it is that we at least hope that it can remove huge burdens: a social one and a psychological one. The social one being that we don't get either ignored or ridiculed for something we never had control. And the psychological one of always feeling like you're not as good as others or so forth.

Take my comment as you will (I'm a little to sleepy and tired as I'm typing this); as either an emotional ramble or a vague logical attempt to make you understand. Either way, I can at least appreciate that you're reminding me how crazy this is, but I'm still gonna push through.

No problem. I've dealt with BDD myself, maybe that's another reason why I take an interest here and can relate to those desperately looking for "fixes". When you get stuck inside your head, lost in fantasy and daydreams ... imagining all the possible versions of yourself, it's easy to lose touch with reality and convince yourself that you'll be a special case with no problems - despite all the evidence against that happening. It's an illness. Height preferences exist, but the risk/reward ratio of this procedure is so far removed from anything that could possibly be considered reasonable it boggles my mind.

I don't think LL will make you more confident in your body. You'll become obsessed with proportions, your function will be off, and you'll have scars. Don't give yourself all that extra baggage. When you have other things going for you, a nice body is just the icing on the cake.  fk bitches get money ... and anyway, will you even be able to train hard enough to forge a nice body after ll? we aren't women, we need to lift heavy crap to build our bodies. To do that you need to be functioning optimally ... dead lifting 50kg, leg pressing 100kg, jogging for a few minutes ... this isn't a recovery, and doesn't cut it if you have aesthetic goals.

SAD - crimson posted that he was still only functioning at 30% of his previous level. He's trying desperately to regain function and is starting to think about worst case scenarios. Hopefully PT will be enough to bring him back to something that resembles his previous level of function.

[alps]

About crimsontide, I doubt if getting prosthetic limbs would really improve function for him.

yes, his outcome seems bad, do they really suggest amputation for such reasons? I thought amputation was if the legs died or had neural damage.

[Morgenst.]

Thats what I told him. Prosthetic limbs do not improve function. Keeping your legs is always better. Nobody suggests amputation. Its just him who is thinking about that.

I haven't kept up with his story but when i search for his posts there's nothing. Mind explaining where his problems stem from? Too much lengthening? not enough PT during lengthening? never heard of anyone being at such a terrible level who didn't ridiculously lengthen (crazy6) or didnt follow directions

[Penguinn]

I highly doubt he's getting his leg amputated. He's probably just paranoid that it's taking too much time to heal.

[Morgenst.]

Yeah i doubt that lol and anyone who would rather have an amputation than a long pt period with the chance of regaining mobility sounds a bit off their rocker. But i wonder why he's in bad shape to begin with

[programdude]

My case is a rarity... A dr. who gave me proper protocol after removal would have likely avoided this. Also I just seem to have really bad luck with this process as everything has taken forever.

But yes, this process is insane. Even if my recovery from my break is smooth it will still be an insane amount of time and money and surgeries

[tx1111]

Hi programdude. Its not as rare. I had a fracture too, having the nail in. And metanoia knows the case of one  patient from Betz who had a fracture during lengthening, had to spent over a year in germany,  and then had a new fracture when her rods were removed. Fracture after nail removal is a well known complication of LL.

How far after nail removal. Do they remove the nails immediately after consolidation and then they break?

Cant they keep nails for a few years in?

[programdude]

you can keep in the nails forever in theory, but it is not recommended.. and for me it hurt a ton. the snap happened approx 3-4 months post removal. really random stuff

[alps]

you can keep in the nails forever in theory, but it is not recommended.. and for me it hurt a ton. the snap happened approx 3-4 months post removal. really random stuff

I think this brings two worries/questions in most of us:
- is lengthening going to make our bones weaker even after healing?
- is it going to take *that* long until we can get nails removed?

I understand you say Dr. R might have misguided you, but from what you saw from your x-rays and from people you have seen who got their nails removed, would you say your bone looked decently grown?

Also, did you inform Dr. R about this? really want to know what he says.

take care man. this must really blow. but it's almost over.

[programdude]

I have. He was pretty useless and I am still contemplating how I am going to handle things before I contact him again.

When I emailed him he asked who I was, then I did my best to provide details to remind him and he said he was away for the weekend but to keep him posted.

When I posted the x rays here most thought they weren't good for removal, but when I showed him he said they were great and it was fine to proceed and that he was the expert, which at the time I figured was true.

[alps]

I have. He was pretty useless and I am still contemplating how I am going to handle things before I contact him again.

When I emailed him he asked who I was, then I did my best to provide details to remind him and he said he was away for the weekend but to keep him posted.

When I posted the x rays here most thought they weren't good for removal, but when I showed him he said they were great and it was fine to proceed and that he was the expert, which at the time I figured was true.

just saw your xray.

it does seem a bit cloudy and not dense enough, I guess.

yeah focus on your recovery first. you could ask him constructively for what he thinks the reason for what happened and take it if you like it or leave it.

[tx1111]

you can keep in the nails forever in theory, but it is not recommended.. and for me it hurt a ton. the snap happened approx 3-4 months post removal. really random stuff

Sorry to hear about that. I hope you recover. I ask because I am doing LON on tibias. My doctor said the nail mus be removed about 2 to 3 years after surgery. I thought that was standard for all internal nails.

[maximize]

I have. He was pretty useless and I am still contemplating how I am going to handle things before I contact him again.

When I emailed him he asked who I was, then I did my best to provide details to remind him and he said he was away for the weekend but to keep him posted.

When I posted the x rays here most thought they weren't good for removal, but when I showed him he said they were great and it was fine to proceed and that he was the expert, which at the time I figured was true.

Damn dude that's rough. Sorry if I missed the explanation. I haven't been on here in a while.

Why was Dr. R advising you on when to remove Dr. Paley's hardware? Cheaper? How long had you had Paley's hardware in for before it was removed?

[Alu]

To answer his questions:

He was cheaper, and yeah it was about exactly a year since he put the rods in that he had them removed.

[maximize]

To answer his questions:

He was cheaper, and yeah it was about exactly a year since he put the rods in that he had them removed.

Wow, that's crazy. I'm surprised the new bone was so weak after a year of having the rods in and then 4 months without them.

I wonder:

Should the standard protocol be 2 years before rod removal instead? Or would it not make a difference since the fracture could have been due to poor quality of new bone formation? Perhaps if his bone formation was just poor quality, that might not have changed even after another year of having the rods.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

It's an individual thing; for some people 2 years of having the nail in there is overkill.  I think the leading theory on here is that Dr. Rozbruch removed the nails too early.

[maximize]

It's an individual thing; for some people 2 years of having the nail in there is overkill.  I think the leading theory on here is that Dr. Rozbruch removed the nails too early.

I really wonder if it would have made any difference at all. If he had the nail for 1 year and removed it for 4 months before the snap occurred, that's at least a year from finishing lengthening during which healing could have occurred.

I think any longer amount of support might not have changed the bone healing process. Or do we have any evidence the bone continues to heal and strengthen even one year after lengthening?

It's quite possible he just formed poor quality and thus weak bone during the consolidation and healing phase, and that bone would have remained weak irrespective.

I don't know though since I don't know how long bone continues to strengthen for post lengthening.

[KiloKAHN]

I really wonder if it would have made any difference at all. If he had the nail for 1 year and removed it for 4 months before the snap occurred, that's at least a year from finishing lengthening during which healing could have occurred.

I think any longer amount of support might not have changed the bone healing process. Or do we have any evidence the bone continues to heal and strengthen even one year after lengthening?

It's quite possible he just formed poor quality and thus weak bone during the consolidation and healing phase, and that bone would have remained weak irrespective.

I don't know though since I don't know how long bone continues to strengthen for post lengthening.

My local orthopedic surgeon told me that bone continues to calcify up to two years post lengthening and that you can see a big difference in the bone on an x ray when comparing the one year to the two year mark.

[maximize]

My local orthopedic surgeon told me that bone continues to calcify up to two years post lengthening and that you can see a big difference in the bone on an x ray when comparing the one year to the two year mark.

That's useful to know. Thanks. Then perhaps the safest thing is nail removal at 2 years rather than 1. Presuming the nail doesn't inhibit consolidation in any way by reducing natural stresses to the bone. I think the nail would reduce some degree of loading to the bone while it's in but overall this will be a net benefit. You'll still get enough weight bearing stress to the bone to induce good ossificiation, but not so much as to cause a fracture, given the added support of the nail.