Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: oldiebuttbaddie on December 09, 2022, 02:33:06 AM
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Hi all,
I just scheduled my surgery with Dr. Giotikas for what is about 5 weeks away now. Any pieces of advice or wisdom?
I can't believe I'm going to do this. One year ago, I didn't even know this existed.
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Congrats on making the big commitment! I’ll be there for surgery in early January. What’s your goal in cm’s?
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Will see how it goes. I’d love to do 7-8, but I’m incredibly inflexible and a bit old so not sure how my body will hold up.
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How about you? Did you book accommodation? How long you planning on staying?
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Does anyone know which airport for landing is closest to Dr G in Athens? Is it ATH ?
Thanks!
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No I haven’t booked my accommodation, I will soon though. My plan is to stay for 3 months and try for 7-8cm. I believe we need a Visa after 90 days right? I’m in Canada btw. How about you?
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I’m in the states. I’m staying 7 weeks. Let me know when you book your accommodation. Curios about advantages of each.
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It’s part of the reason why I haven’t booked accommodations yet. I heard Grand Hyatt is much better than the other two. But of course, it’s a lot more. The 3 star hotel ain’t cheap either for a 3 star. Like $55 euros. They should have a monthly deal instead.
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How about rehabilitation? Is it also expensive there? And also will you stay alone?
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I will also be in January. surgery on the 17th. I will stay at the Novotel
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Good Luck on your journey ! What’s your lengthening goal? And have you booked with Novotel yet? How long are you planning on staying?
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I intend to stay 6 weeks, I want to go to 7cm at least.
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So did you already meet Dr Giotikas? Or is meeting before surgery (I mean weeks/months before) even needed?
What kind queue Giotikas has? Is that 5 weeks fastest possible schedule?
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Looks like we got a little winter Athens crew in this thread. Since I'm assuming this is new to everyone, let's list things that we think might be helpful. I saw in a couple other threads that having a grabber to be able to reach things is helpful.
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The rehab in included while you're in Athens. I plan to stay alone, although some of my friends want to visit. I think I'll wait until the second month so it's a little less embarrassing.
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There is a free initial 15 minute consultation and then a 45 minute consultation that costs 200 Euro. Both can be done by zoom. I just booked mine for mid January and they offered me a few dates so doesn't seem like there would be a huge wait. They recommend you book at least 6 weeks in advance of the surgery date. Not sure if that's be cause they want you to do the stretching for 6 weeks or to ensure availability. My guess is that you could probably do it with a lot less notice, but honestly, I think you probably need a few weeks just to make sure it's not an impulsive decision.
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Have you already paid the full deposit?
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Have you already paid the full deposit?
Paid today.
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Will see how it goes. I’d love to do 7-8, but I’m incredibly inflexible and a bit old so not sure how my body will hold up.
There have been some guys in 40s and 50s who have had good results so it isn't set in stone that age will be a hindrance. Unless you are one of those guys who is like 33 but refers to themselves as old.
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What is average age for LL then ?
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What is average age for LL then ?
Mid to late 20s. Earlier if parents are paying for it.
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Have you done LL yourself or planning to? I’m heading to Athens myself, next month!
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There have been some guys in 40s and 50s who have had good results so it isn't set in stone that age will be a hindrance. Unless you are one of those guys who is like 33 but refers to themselves as old.
I haven't seen 33 in over a decade. I'm in great shape, don't look my age, and often hang out with younger people so I don't feel old at all. It's only in times like this when it becomes a consideration. In all honesty, I'm not too worried about my age but am a little concerned about my lack of flexibility. Anyway--we'll see how it goes. I'll do the best I can and will be satisfied with the result.
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So no need to meet DR Giotikas before the surgery date? How he can order right nails or make measurements etc.? Or you just meet him first time when you are laying on surgery table? ::)
Did you pay whole amount about 47k€ already? And you paid to hotel also? Does he offer insurance if something bad happens?
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So no need to meet DR Giotikas before the surgery date? How he can order right nails or make measurements etc.? Or you just meet him first time when you are laying on surgery table? ::)
Did you pay whole amount about 47k€ already? And you paid to hotel also? Does he offer insurance if something bad happens?
You have a pre-op appointment the day before the surgery.
There is a 1600 Euro deposit due when you schedule the surgery. The balance is due before the surgery occures.
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If you're on the heavier side, Dr G will also ask you to get x-rays and send them to him before your surgery so that he can confirm whether the largest weightbearing nail will fit your bones.
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If you're on the heavier side, Dr G will also ask you to get x-rays and send them to him before your surgery so that he can confirm whether the largest weightbearing nail will fit your bones.
Have you done LL with G-Nail?
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are you doing it with g nail or precice? g nail is weight bearing so more convenient. If you are flexible, some patients have gone beyond 8cm
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If you're on the heavier side, Dr G will also ask you to get x-rays and send them to him before your surgery so that he can confirm whether the largest weightbearing nail will fit your bones.
What are the weight limits for different size g-nails?
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Have you done LL with G-Nail?
Nope but my surgery is booked for Feb and the doctor advised me this :)
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What are the weight limits for different size g-nails?
I'm not sure about the others but I believe the largest g-nail weight-bears 95kg (although Dr G said he knows they can weight-bear more but this is a conservative limit)
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Hi
Lack of flexibility - you will experience a lot of muscle tightness and nerve pain during PT session.
Jus go slow in Lengthening and do a lot of stretching ..you should be ok.
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Nope but my surgery is booked for Feb and the doctor advised me this :)
How long are you planning to stay and have you booked accommodations with the hotel yet? I have surgery booked for early January myself!
Cheers!
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I'm not sure about the others but I believe the largest g-nail weight-bears 95kg (although Dr G said he knows they can weight-bear more but this is a conservative limit)
Yeah G-nail comes in 2 sizes
11mm can support 75Kg per leg
13mm can go up to 95kg per leg
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Yeah G-nail comes in 2 sizes
11mm can support 75Kg per leg
13mm can go up to 95kg per leg
During distraction phase, Doc would always advise you to use the crutches.
Some patients were trying to be hero and walked without support.
This is risky and strongly not advisable by PT center and Doctor.
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During distraction phase, Doc would always advise you to use the crutches.
Some patients were trying to be hero and walked without support.
This is risky and strongly not advisable by PT center and Doctor.
Well said @bagga . Agree 100%
I was one of the "heroes" who tried to climb stairs one week after surgery (alone with the walker). I did... And in the process, I strained my quad.
That episode f....d up all my recovery.
Guys take it easy and follow the doc and nurses as much as possible.
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How long are you planning to stay and have you booked accommodations with the hotel yet? I have surgery booked for early January myself!
Cheers!
I think I'll stay the full 3 months for the lengthening phase, but haven't decided yet. Will likely finalise accommodation early Jan. Have you booked your accommodation?
Oh nice, might see you there then! Mine's not till the latter half of Feb though.
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Hi
Lack of flexibility - you will experience a lot of muscle tightness and nerve pain during PT session.
Jus go slow in Lengthening and do a lot of stretching ..you should be ok.
Thanks for the advice. When you say go slow on the lengthening, do you mean less clicks?
Have you noticed people with lack of flexibility having a significantly harder time or just not being able to complete it?
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Thanks for the advice. When you say go slow on the lengthening, do you mean less clicks?
Have you noticed people with lack of flexibility having a significantly harder time or just not being able to complete it?
Hey oldiebuttbaddie!
Yes, going slow = fewer clicks per day
"Have you noticed people with lack of flexibility having a significantly harder time"
Yes, exactly. I haven't seen someone stop completely yet. Because of some flexibility issues, I slowed down clicking to be significantly slower than some other patients. 15 clicks = 1 mm I believe. I'm only doing 8 clicks per day now. I'll be stopping at 7 cm.
I recommend staying at Hyatt Hotel if you have the money, its indoor pool is great for training during the colder months. Its really fun and easy to stretch and walk in the pool, really liberating. The larger indoor pool floor at Hyatt is also accessible by elevator, unlike the other hotel with a smaller/very shallow outdoor pool that requires going up stairs to reach.
Maybe getting the hyatt hotel credit card to cover some of the cost with points might be a good idea. Hyatt's spa area is awesome, the jacuzzi feels really good on the muscles. There's nice indoor pool beds with a nice ambience for relaxing. Nice gym too. And its overall a much more luxurious experience that I think is good for patient's mental health if you can afford it.
I stayed at Montaza Hotel and regret it (small, barebones, breakfast buffet is unfortunate, no gym, no pool, very tiny desks, the bike the nurses give you does not really fit well in the small Montaza non-handicap rooms, the wheelchair does not fit through the non-handicap room bathroom doors, and the limited number of handicap rooms are near the loud strip club music nearby)
See you in Athens in February! I'll be there still training and trying to improve my walking gait
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Climbing up is easy
Going down the stair is a challenge, need to be careful not to fall.
I did the stairs the next day after surgery, together with Doc.
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Thanks for the advice. When you say go slow on the lengthening, do you mean less clicks?
Have you noticed people with lack of flexibility having a significantly harder time or just not being able to complete it?
People less flexibility may have clicking issue and need time to adjust and manage.
Be calm and get help from Nurse and Doctor.
People less flexibility may experience pains during clicking and after clicking.
That's why it is good to go slow (less clicks) for your muscles and nerves to catch up.
Most completed the extension but take longer time.
You can also fly back home after 2 months to continue the extension yourself.
This is advantage of Gnail, no ERC machine requires.
I started to experience pain at 5.5cm as my flexibility is considered good.
Others got it at 3cm or less, dun be shocked to hear the curse & swear from some patients at PT center!
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People less flexibility may have clicking issue and need time to adjust and manage.
Be calm and get help from Nurse and Doctor.
People less flexibility may experience pains during clicking and after clicking.
That's why it is good to go slow (less clicks) for your muscles and nerves to catch up.
Most completed the extension but take longer time.
You can also fly back home after 2 months to continue the extension yourself.
This is advantage of Gnail, no ERC machine requires.
I started to experience pain at 5.5cm as my flexibility is considered good.
Others got it at 3cm or less, dun be shocked to hear the curse & swear from some patients at PT center!
[/quote
How long after do patients do the clicks without any assistance?
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Climbing up is easy
Going down the stair is a challenge, need to be careful not to fall.
I did the stairs the next day after surgery, together with Doc.
Yeah actually I wonder if the PT's at Athens would be willing to help me train walking on stairs now that I'm done lengthening (my math was wrong, I'm actually done now already and am at 7cm). The stairs are really close to their door at PT so I assume they would be willing to help, should only take a few minutes
I have only done up/down stairs using the rail + one crutch, I haven't attempted it with just the rail or with no assistance
Ozboy was a cool dude to meet in Athens and was really chill/helpful
Unrelated to that, recently I have seen a guy living at Hyatt hotel at around 3 cm with gnail who can already walk pmuch normally and its amazing
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what other hotels would you recommend? Hyatt hotel seems expensive for me.
and it appears staying at hotels longer than a month has difference prices? is it by seasonality due to travelling?
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what other hotels would you recommend? Hyatt hotel seems expensive for me.
and it appears staying at hotels longer than a month has difference prices? is it by seasonality due to travelling?
I think if Hyatt isn't a realistic option, Novotel is the next best option. It's breakfast is alot better than Montaza's. It's not as nice as Hyatt but its still nicer than Montaza. There used to be alot at Montaza but there's just 2 now and more and more people are switching to Novotel instead
But actually I wonder-- is Novotel really the next best hotel option budget wise?
Hyatt I feel is significantly better in the colder months October-March because it has an indoor pool to train in. I visited each of the three and Hyatt is definitely the nicest/most luxurious, has a better pool than Novotel that is indoors, has a nice indoor jacuzzi, sauna
I sort of wonder how much of the Hyatt stay can be covered with credit card points alone. I know that some other patients used credit card points to cover alot of their stay
https://world.hyatt.com/content/gp/en/rewards/hyatt-credit-card.html
I can't get the Hyatt hotel card right now because the card is partnered with Chase and they have a rule that you can't have more than 5 new credit cards within 24 months (so I have to wait a bit, I grabbed a few other small credit card signup bonuses with those).
Looks like the Hyatt credit card has a 60000 point signup bonus. Google says each point is worth about 2.8 cents per point. So about 60000*2.8/100 = 1680 USD worth of the cost can be covered with the signup bonus. Also you get a free night after each year anniversary of owning the card which more than cancels out the annual fee.
"Already a Cardmember? Refer a friend and you can earn up to 25,000 Bonus Points per year for friends who get the card. Invite now."
I can't get the card now or participate--but if you guys refer each other, you can sort of all mutually get 25000*2.8/100= about 700 more USD towards the cost covered with points.
And then lets see, it looks it says you get 9 points per dollar spent on Hyatt hotels (5 of those from being a World of Hyatt member but I don't believe there is an annual fee or any difficult application for that), and if each point is about 2.8 cents its like.. 0.09*2.8= 0.252 or about 25% percent off the cost of the Hyatt hotel (each week you pay helps alot to pay for the next week). Which makes it more comparable to Novotel's price
"9 points total per $1 spent for Hyatt stays and experiences including restaurants and spas. That's:
4 Bonus Points per $1 you spend with your card**
5 Base Points per $1 you can earn as a World of Hyatt member
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for getting around with local transit and commuting**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for dining out at restaurants, cafes and coffee shops**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for taking off with flights purchased directly from the airline**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for staying healthy with fitness club and gym memberships**
1 Bonus Point per $1 spent for wherever life takes you**"
I mean these are better bonus point multipliers than they look because if google says that each Hyatt point is worth about 2.8 cents, actually these multipliers are like double than what they look like
So it feels like depending on what you do, you can cover like 2000-4000 USD of the cost with Hyatt hotel credit card points.
At least in the USA, its also a good idea to get the charles schwab debit card because you'll need to get physical cash from the hospital ATM in Athens (ex: we pay for the Dr. Giotikas's arranged travel by cash now) and charles schwab will reimburse you for the ATM fees
I regret not getting the Hyatt credit card. Around the time, I got a different credit card that is not nearly as good (smaller bonus, worse point multipliers)
If you have any extra Hyatt credit card points after you finish, you can use them when you come back to Athens to do nail removal (say if you do gnail, Dr. Giotikas has a good price for nail removal, I believe he is significantly cheaper than Dr. Jean-March Guichet for nail removal)
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I think if Hyatt isn't a realistic option, Novotel is the next best option. It's breakfast is alot better than Montaza's. It's not as nice as Hyatt but its still nicer than Montaza. There used to be alot at Montaza but there's just 2 now and more and more people are switching to Novotel instead
But actually I wonder-- is Novotel really the next best hotel option budget wise?
Hyatt I feel is significantly better in the colder months October-March because it has an indoor pool to train in. I visited each of the three and Hyatt is definitely the nicest/most luxurious, has a better pool than Novotel that is indoors, has a nice indoor jacuzzi, sauna
I sort of wonder how much of the Hyatt stay can be covered with credit card points alone. I know that some other patients used credit card points to cover alot of their stay
https://world.hyatt.com/content/gp/en/rewards/hyatt-credit-card.html
I can't get the Hyatt hotel card right now because the card is partnered with Chase and they have a rule that you can't have more than 5 new credit cards within 24 months (so I have to wait a bit, I grabbed a few other small credit card signup bonuses with those).
Looks like the Hyatt credit card has a 60000 point signup bonus. Google says each point is worth about 2.8 cents per point. So about 60000*2.8/100 = 1680 USD worth of the cost can be covered with the signup bonus. Also you get a free night after each year anniversary of owning the card which more than cancels out the annual fee.
"Already a Cardmember? Refer a friend and you can earn up to 25,000 Bonus Points per year for friends who get the card. Invite now."
I can't get the card now or participate--but if you guys refer each other, you can sort of all mutually get 25000*2.8/100= about 700 more USD towards the cost covered with points.
And then lets see, it looks it says you get 9 points per dollar spent on Hyatt hotels (5 of those from being a World of Hyatt member but I don't believe there is an annual fee or any difficult application for that), and if each point is about 2.8 cents its like.. 0.09*2.8= 0.252 or about 25% percent off the cost of the Hyatt hotel (each week you pay helps alot to pay for the next week). Which makes it more comparable to Novotel's price
"9 points total per $1 spent for Hyatt stays and experiences including restaurants and spas. That's:
4 Bonus Points per $1 you spend with your card**
5 Base Points per $1 you can earn as a World of Hyatt member
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for getting around with local transit and commuting**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for dining out at restaurants, cafes and coffee shops**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for taking off with flights purchased directly from the airline**
2 Bonus Points per $1 spent for staying healthy with fitness club and gym memberships**
1 Bonus Point per $1 spent for wherever life takes you**"
I mean these are better bonus point multipliers than they look because if google says that each Hyatt point is worth about 2.8 cents, actually these multipliers are like double than what they look like
So it feels like depending on what you do, you can cover like 2000-4000 USD of the cost covered with credit card points.
At least in the USA, its also a good idea to get the charles schwab debit card because you'll need to get physical cash from the hospital ATM in Athens (ex: we pay for the Dr. Giotikas's arranged travel by cash now) and charles schwab will reimburse you for the ATM fees
Holy we have a credit card churner ;D ;D
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Holy we have a credit card churner ;D ;D
Yeah pretty much. Aside from Hyatt's credit card, I think it might be good to get a second no foreign transaction fee credit card right before you go to Athens to grab yet another signup bonus. Another Athens patient suggested this to me. Plenty of cards of those types where you spend 1000 USD on stuff you woulda bought anyway and grab a 150-200 USD signup bonus.
You'll still have other expenses aside from Hyatt/hotels like ordering food from Wolt (food delivery app) and occasional Uber/Freenow app rides when Dr. Giotikas's arranged travel SUV cannot accomodate every single trip of every patient (ex: recently I paid an uber ride from the hospital back to the hotel because the arranged travel SUV was busy with other patients). Might as well get another signup bonus out of it if you are forced to pay for these things.
For food in Athens, you can eat pretty cheaply in Athens if you want to. Plenty of 0 to 1 Euro delivery fee options on the Wolt app. Common fruits and seeds are very cheap per unit. Can get a pretty filling gyro for 3.50 euros on Wolt and you can choose what they put in it on the app (though on the app you probably have to order two of them to meet the minimum amount for delivery).
When you come, use the Wolt app as soon as you can to get familiar with it -- don't get the overpriced and worse hotel food tbh unless you can't get out of bed from pain early on and want the hotel staff to bring the food to you in bed. At Montaza Hotel I know they don't put a lid on the hotel food as they bring it to you so the chances are high in colder months that the food will arrive cold / room temperature. So ya just use Wolt, pick a restaurant/store nearby and the delivery fee will be like 0-1 euros if its close, meet the delivery guy at the entrance with your wheelchair
Compared to other credit cards, I think that the Hyatt credit card has one of the best effective point multipliers for our purposes -- because their points are worth more than 1 cent and can be applied to hotel costs efficiently
Dr. Donghoon Lee in Korea put up several swimming pool exercise videos to help speed up the recovery and exercise muscles that you wouldn't use very often otherwise
These exercises are good to do in Hyatt's indoor swimming pool ('walking forwards' you'll already do at physio with the antigravity treadmill but check out the other exercises in this vids)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5djUfR-D6WY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqbgiJDoLGE
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Hyatt Hotel implemented a rule that if you are not staying at Hyatt Hotel, you have to pay 40 euros per visit to use their pool (ex: so if you are staying at a different hotel and then you come to Hyatt as a guest, you must pay 40 euros). So you cannot just be invited by a friend and use the pool for free.
So that's another pretty good reason to stay at Hyatt Hotel, especially in the colder months October-March. If you are staying at Hyatt Hotel, you can just use their elevator-accessible indoor pleasantly warm pool without worrying about paying the 40 euros
I think there is also an argument if you're using precise nails (femur precise, tibia precise, or quadrilateral precise) then access to a pool means you can get in alot more walking practice (in the water) than you would have otherwise since precise is not weight bearing
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Looks like the Hyatt credit card has a 60000 point signup bonus. Google says each point is worth about 2.8 cents per point. So about 60000*2.8/100 = 1680 USD worth of the cost can be covered with the signup bonus. Also you get a free night after each year anniversary of owning the card which more than cancels out the annual fee.
I would highly doubt that a Hyatt point is worth anywhere close to 2.8 cents.
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I would highly doubt that a Hyatt point is worth anywhere close to 2.8 cents.
Yeah it seems nerdwallet's website's estimate of 2.8 just ended up as the first google result but then below it are a bunch of other lower estimates, my b
Seems like a big range of different estimates below from google:
What are Hyatt Points Worth? - NerdWallethttps://www.nerdwallet.com › Travel
Hyatt points are worth on average 2.8 cents each when redeemed for award stays. Sam Kemmis. By ...
https://frequentmiler.com › what-are-hyatt-points-worth
Dec 7, 2022 — Based on the latest analysis, the Hyatt Reasonable Redemption Value (RRV) has jumped to 2.1 cents per point (from 1.6 previously). That's a huge ...
How to calculate the value of Hyatt points | Million Mile Secretcraptps://millionmilesecrets.com › guides › hyatt-points-v...
Short and subjective answer: A typical Hyatt point is worth is 1.5 cents each (yes, it's possible to get way more from them). There are some downsides, too, ...
How much are Hyatt points worth? - CreditCards.comhttps://www.creditcards.com › card-advice › hyatt-point...
Oct 5, 2022 — Hyatt standard room rewards ; 1, 5,000, 2.2 cents ; 2, 8,000, 3.6 cents ; 3, 12,000, 2.9 cents ; 4, 15,000, 2 cents.
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I apologize guys, I just found out today that Hyatt swimming pool is now selling a monthly pass for 200 euros per month (at the moment) so I'm gonna do that. I didn't know about it until this morning, it seems to be new. Since I'm at Montaza and Hyatt is just across the street, I'm just going to do this.
I'd recommend you do this if its not too late if you have gnail.
If you have gnail, you will be able to handle a non-handicap Montaza room after maybe 2 weeks (not including the hospital), not sure. The handicap rooms at Montaza are good physically but they are close to the loud club music. So I stayed in the hospital a few days, I moved to a Montaza handicap room for 2 weeks ish, then I moved to a non-handicap Montaza room for the better price/noise. If it's not too late, wanna do that and we'll ride together and share taxi costs from Montaza to Hyatt's swimming pool in early 2023 January/February? We can meet up with any Hyatt patients there when we go to Hyatt's swimming pool.
I say across the street, but its not really possible to go across two very big busy large streets on the wheelchair without a taxi. Google maps will show how big those two streets are in between the two hotels, almost like two highways cutting through in between the two hotels
I'll try to fix my other post in the other thread now
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I apologize guys, I just found out today that Hyatt swimming pool is now selling a monthly pass for 200 euros per month (at the moment) so I'm gonna do that. I didn't know about it until this morning, it seems to be new. Since I'm at Montaza and Hyatt is just across the street, I'm just going to do this.
I'd recommend you do this if its not too late if you have gnail.
If you have gnail, you will be able to handle a non-handicap Montaza room after maybe 1.5-2 weeks, not sure. The handicap rooms at Montaza are good physically but they are close to the loud club music. If it's not too late, wanna do that and we'll ride together and share taxi costs from Montaza to Hyatt in early 2023 January/February? We can meet up with any Hyatt patients there when we go too
That sounds like a good deal. Do you find yourself swimming more or just walking in the pool?
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That sounds like a good deal. Do you find yourself swimming more or just walking in the pool?
Hey man, I edited my post above to include more information
Personally, I find myself walking more in the pool than swimming. Personally, my hip flexors/hips feel a bit weak/strange during regular swimming but I am hoping to get stronger to avoid that soon. Regular swimming is good though if you can do it, I do it very briefly
I'd recommend taking it easy at first in the swimming pool, you still want energy left over for physio in the coming days. Take breaks, socialize, use the jacuzzi to relax, etc. I think during lengthening, the stretching in the pool is possibly better than the exercising, not exactly sure. Its really nice to stretch in the pool, ex: near a wall because the water sort of just holds your upper body up for you and you can hold onto the wall for more support
You will already practice walking forwards on the anti gravity treadmill machine at the physical therapy center. So maybe it would be better to try some other motions that are different than walking forward in the water (Donghoon Lee and the Korean LL youtube hydrotherapy vids)
For novotel patients, it might be better to use Novotel's outdoor pool or find a cheaper indoor pool near Novotel if its too cold outside during certain months
Montaza and Hyatt are very close to each other but because there are two large very busy roads in between them (youtube/google maps will give an idea of how large they are, its not practical to cross those two roads without a taxi, idk its maybe like ... more than 10 lanes of very fast moving cars/motorcycles in between?) , you still need a taxi to go from Hyatt<->Montaza
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I just got back from swimming at Hyatt, and I feel more convinced of this medium budget cold weather month gnail strategy --for people who don't want to pay for Novotel or Hyatt the whole time. For the colder months of colder months of November->March, this is a decent strategy:
-1. Make sure all your stuff can be moved in roller travel bags, don't have too much stuff
0. Pick g-nail for weight bearing ability
1. Stay in either Novotel or a handicap Montaza room at first after leaving the hospital
2. After 2-3 weeks depending on your progress, move to a Montaza non-handicap room to save money (gnail patients can handle this usually, especially if you buy a toilet seat riser, ask the nurses or the bicycle/handicap stuff company that contacts you early on)
3. Buy hyatt's monthly swimming pass (call to reserve a time then buy it when you come)
4. Then carpool taxi ride with other patients to Hyatt's indoor swimming pool strategy" for the colder months of November->March. Evidently in April it becomes warm again from what Greeks have told me.
Basically, with this strategy, you pay alot less than Hyatt patients and you still get to experience alot of the luxury/premium experience of Hyatt and its jacuzzi/swimming pool/etc.
I think in the warmer months of April-October, a 100% novotel strategy is pretty good. Worst case scenario (where you can't handle their stairs to the outdoor pool) you just ask the hotel staff to physically lift your body up to the rooftop outdoor swimming pool
This Jan-Feb 2023 I'd love to carpool taxi ride with you guys from Montaza -> Hyatt's indoor pool to train together if you're down.
I might come back to Athens in November to do precise tibias and would also love to carpool taxi ride with some of you from Novotel -> Grand Hyatt's indoor swimming pool some time.
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Hey one thing I have done with a Montaza patient before is splitting meals from the wolt food delivery app to save money
What I mean is this:
- some restaurants give huge portions you can't really finish by yourself easily -> this has resulted in patients just ending up throwing away food or having it go cold in their fridge (no microwave at montaza, not much room for one either)
Ex:
- two gyros for 7 euros is alot (you cannot order just one for 3.50 on wolt, have to order more), hard for one person to finish -> better to split between two people
- one pizza is hard for one person to finish
- some chinese dishes (ex: beef and broccoli with onions) + rice on the side is alot of food, hard for one person to finish, better to split it between two people
So we have been doing this to cut down on food costs (the alternative is often throwing away some food or having it go cold). We just use cash (Euros) to split the costs. You can get cash from either hyatt's ATM (turn down its first offer of a bad exchange rate, accept the second implied offer) or the hospital ATM
Anyone wanna do this with me at Novotel late fall 2023/early 2024? I'm at Montaza now doing this with someone to cut down on food costs
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Hey, are you getting the g-nail. How many procedures does Dr. Giotikas do on average per month from your observations.
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Updates?
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My surgery is scheduled for 19th January. For someone who generally has nerves of steel, I got to tell you--I'm pretty much a wreck.
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Hey, are you getting the g-nail. How many procedures does Dr. Giotikas do on average per month from your observations.
I asked him that and can't remember the exact number but it was pretty substantial. He said that about 30% of his practice is cosmetic. My impression of him based on my consultation and from my discussion with other people was wholly positive and that he seemed very professional.
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My surgery is scheduled for 19th January. For someone who generally has nerves of steel, I got to tell you--I'm pretty much a wreck.
Mate, it may sound too easy, but seriously. Take it easy. Embrace the experience. Try to be in the moment as much as possible and remember the surgery is the easy part. You have got to do nothing. Maybe get something planned for after the surgery to concentrate your mind on while waiting.
And try to talk to the nurses there (there’s plenty of hot ones that I remember), get to know the surrounding and most of all, just relax. Most you have to do is to put a gown on and wait. Then you’ll be in the operating bed and they’ll put you to sleep.
I only had the time to have a couple of jokes with the anaesthesiologist and that’s all I remember.
Good luck in any case.
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Hello all,
I had the surgery two days ago 19 January.
I woke up to no pain and that has basically stayed the same or maybe increased slightly until now. My legs do feel like they're just kind of dead weigh hanging off my body. Dr. G, and the nurse both showed me how to click, and there was no problem clicking. I've had a bunch of accidental clicks, but they said those will go away after the first week. I like using the walker because it's the only time I'm not laid up in bed.
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Hello all,
I had the surgery two days ago 19 January.
I woke up to no pain and that has basically stayed the same or maybe increased slightly until now. My legs do feel like they're just kind of dead weigh hanging off my body. Dr. G, and the nurse both showed me how to click, and there was no problem clicking. I've had a bunch of accidental clicks, but they said those will go away after the first week. I like using the walker because it's the only time I'm not laid up in bed.
Congrats on the successful surgery! I also had surgery with Dr G a few weeks ago. If you’d like to get together with a few of us, let me know. Cheers!
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Congrats!
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Hello all,
I had the surgery two days ago 19 January.
I woke up to no pain and that has basically stayed the same or maybe increased slightly until now. My legs do feel like they're just kind of dead weigh hanging off my body. Dr. G, and the nurse both showed me how to click, and there was no problem clicking. I've had a bunch of accidental clicks, but they said those will go away after the first week. I like using the walker because it's the only time I'm not laid up in bed.
Good job. Did you vomit or feel nauseous after you woke up?
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Not at all.
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Congrats on the successful surgery! I also had surgery with Dr G a few weeks ago. If you’d like to get together with a few of us, let me know. Cheers!
Sure. I'm getting out of the hospital in a few hours. Can't wait.
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Was PT included in the price of surgery? Also, how much is the Hyatt hotel vs Montana?
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Pt is included. Hyatt is around 95 Euro. Montaza is around 55 Euro.
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Pt is included. Hyatt is around 95 Euro. Montaza is around 55 Euro.
Did you get a quiet room in Montana? There are nurses often there if you need a little help?
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Did you get a quiet room in Montana? There are nurses often there if you need a little help?
I stayed at Montaza for 2 night prior to surgery. I fell asleep to the soundtrack of loud and prolonged sex. I knew I wasn't going to be gettin any for quite a while, so kind of enjoyed listening to it but definitely wouldn't call it quiet. I'm staying at Hyatt now. It is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade. If you're trying to save money I'd recommend an Airbnb over Montaza. Nurses come by the hotels, but I didn't really need them. I think the nurses would come by your Airbnb depending on where your nurses are .
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I stayed at Montaza for 2 night prior to surgery. I fell asleep to the soundtrack of loud and prolonged sxx. I knew I wasn't going to be gettin any for quite a while, so kind of enjoyed listening to it but definitely wouldn't call it quiet. I'm staying at Hyatt now. It is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade. If you're trying to save money I'd recommend an Airbnb over Montaza. Nurses come by the hotels, but I didn't really need them. I think the nurses would come by your Airbnb depending on where your nurses are .
What's the price difference for you stay at these two hotels? Did you manage to get a deal for stayed longer?
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I stayed at Montaza for 2 night prior to surgery. I fell asleep to the soundtrack of loud and prolonged sxx. I knew I wasn't going to be gettin any for quite a while, so kind of enjoyed listening to it but definitely wouldn't call it quiet. I'm staying at Hyatt now. It is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade. If you're trying to save money I'd recommend an Airbnb over Montaza. Nurses come by the hotels, but I didn't really need them. I think the nurses would come by your Airbnb depending on where your nurses are .
100%
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Do you think aribnb is also a better option for precice patients? Does staying at aribnb cost money per day to pay for a caregiver?
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hey hope all is going well
Did you get an ITB band release?
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Do you think aribnb is also a better option for precice patients? Does staying at aribnb cost money per day to pay for a caregiver?
Not the best one to answer this because I have G-nail, but I imagine if you're a precise patient on your own, you'd want to spend a little more time choosing your airbnb and may even want to visit it before choosing. I don't know whether you need a caregiver, but if you do, you'd probably just be better off in a hotel. One thing to think about is that this surgery is going to cost a significant sum. If where you stay is important to you or if worrying about it is going to stress you out, do yourself a favor and choose the more expensive option. It can't be that much more relative to how much you're paying for the surgery, and it might make your recovery easier. If you need to justify the additional expense, the dollar has increased a couple percent in the last few days which should save you about $1k.
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hey hope all is going well
Did you get an ITB band release?
Dr. G does this automatically. It wasn't even discussed.
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Is G-Nail weight-bearing?
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Is G-Nail weight-bearing?
Yes. And so we got to use crutches relatively quickly in the weeks after the surgery
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Can you give us an update please?
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Can you give us an update please?
Hi all,
While this forum can be quite toxic, I also found it to be a valuable resource in a space where information is severely lacking so I feel like it's my duty to contribute. Please note--one thing I found that people tend to do is generalize based on anectodal evidence, Unfortunately, there is not a lot of scientific research on limb lengthening so these anectodal diaries become important data points. But understand that they're just that--data points.
This surgery not only creates a tremendous amount of trauma to your body, but re-traumautizes your body each time you lengthen. This can create a domino effect so you have many things going on with your body. Some things tend to be more universal, but not everybody's body reacts the same way. Feel free to ask any questions, but please be kind and humble to each other.
Anyway-here's a recap so far.
Day 0--Surgery day, January 19th (bi-lateral femurs surgery using g-nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens)
Woke up from surgery feeling relatively OK and pain free, although my legs felt like they were just sandbags attached to my body. I walked (or hopped) about 100 feet on the walker with no problem.
Stayed in the hospital for three nights. Stay was fine. Had the room to myself with great nurses attending to me regularly but trying their best to let me sleep. Hospital itself was somewhat rundown, and I wouldn't trust the doctors there other than Dr. G.
First week after surgery-
Settled into the Hyatt and was able to walk around with walker when needed.
I did not feel pain regularly during the day, however, my legs continued to feel like sandbags attached to my body that I could move up and down but had no control over when they moved to the side. If they started to move to the side, I would not be able to overcome the inertia, and this would be excruciatingly painful.
At night, I would wake up every half hour and have to pee five or six times per night (I found out this was caused by the swelling, but I still don't understand why the urge to pee often only came at night).
Hyatt staff are are particularly friendly, and it created a pleasant atmosphere in what was to be my home for the next 7 weeks.
Second week after surgery--
I started PT and clicking.
I found getting in and out of cabs incredibly stressful because often times doing so would cause my legs to veer off to the side causing incredible pain. At PT they exclusively focus on stretching. They basically perform the same routine on all femur patients every day. Aside from getting stretched, they administer electricity, ice, and a compression boot. You also ride a bike and after two weeks are cleared to walk on an anti-gravity machine. The PT sessions lasts about 2 to 2.5 hours, but I think that it could probably be accomplished in 45 minutes (30 for the stretching and 15 for the anti-gravity machine). I question whether any of the other things they do are effective, especially weeks after your surgery. Nonetheless, despite being way too crowded of a space, PT is generally a pleasant social atmosphere where you get a chance to chat with other patients and the PT staff.
Clicking for me was incredibly easy. I was able to do it on my own from the get go, and I could accomplish it in a minute or two. However, the easy clicks has its drawbacks as I also had an inordinate amount of accidental clicks, especially on my left side.
I had my first x-ray taken 11 days after surgery and it showed that I had lengthened 1.8 cm on my left side and 1.3 cm on my right side.
Third week--
I increased from 15 clicks per day to 21 clicks, as Dr. G has G-nail patients lengthen 1.5mm during the 3rd week. Clicking continued to be a breeze, but I started to get much tighter and PT got more painful. My sleep improved somewhat, as I would wake up every 2 hours instead of every half hour and no longer had the urge to pee repeatedly throughout the night.
Fourth week--
Began to experience nerve pain in my left calf that eventually became unbearable when i applied any type of weight on it. It also was both numb and extra sensitive to touch. At PT, they would put tremendous force into stretching me and that too caused unbearable pain to the point that I would be screaming during the PT sessions.
Fifth week-
I took a couple days off clicking my left leg and the pain in my calf began to subside.
I had my third x-ray 32 days after surgery. I had lengthened 4.2 cm on my left leg and 3.8 on my right. Considering I had not lengthened my left leg for a couple days and then reduced the clicks for another couple days, this meant I was averaging almost 1.5 mm on my left leg. I believe this was an unforced error that caused me unnecessary pain and numbness that is is still there today. My x-rays showed slow bone growth, and my flexibility left something to be desired so Dr. G. slowed me down to 7 clicks per day.
Sixth week--
Reducing the number of clicks dramatically reduced the pain during the day to the point that I stopped taking the tramadol. However, the day I stopped, I ended up feeling like complete dog . It didn't occur to me until quite late in the day that I was going through withdrawal. Because I still want to take it at night and want the option to take it before PT or if I end up increasing clicks or just feel pain one day, I decided to continue to take 1.5 tramadols per day regularly, regardless of whether I feel pain. I like my drugs just as much as the next guy, but don't like feeling like I'm a junkie. Nonetheless, I will wait until this whole thing is over so I only have to go through withdrawal once. I will tell you that aside from the physical signs of withdrawal, the tramadol made me much more emotional.
Seventh week-
PT continued to be excruciatingly painful, but my flexibility improved somewhat, probably because I was only clicking at less than .5mm per day.
I had my final X-ray in Athens which showed improved bone growth. Dr. G upped me to 8 clicks per day.
Eight week-
I returned home, and started PT here. I go twice per week, and it is much more individualized. They focus both on strength and flexibility, however, while the stretches can be fairly uncomfortable for an extended period of time, they stop right before the point of pain. My physical therapist said that research shows that stretching right up to the point of pain is more effective.
Notes--I'm walking on crutches quite a bit and hope to walk unassisted shortly after I stop lengthening. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I'm able to put on muscle fairly quickly so hope I will be able to get my glutes back sooner rather than later. I'm also considering taking BPC 157, TB 500, and possibly HGH to assist with recovery. If anyone has any experience or advice about this, I'd very much appreciate it.
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Update--So things haven't gone very smoothly over the past month. About a month ago I found out I had a DVT and a bent nail on the same day. While the DVT will hopefully go away and won't be an issue, the bent nail real negative impact on recovery. Because the nail is compromised, I'm the doctor basically is treating it as I have a precise nail. No walking normally on crutches until the bone consolidates. Additionally, because the nail bent, my knee alignment is slightly screwed up. Not exactly sure how bad it'll be, but it's definitely not going to be the smooth recovery I was hoping for.
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Update--So things haven't gone very smoothly over the past month. About a month ago I found out I had a DVT and a bent nail on the same day. While the DVT will hopefully go away and won't be an issue, the bent nail real negative impact on recovery. Because the nail is compromised, I'm the doctor basically is treating it as I have a precise nail. No walking normally on crutches until the bone consolidates. Additionally, because the nail bent, my knee alignment is slightly screwed up. Not exactly sure how bad it'll be, but it's definitely not going to be the smooth recovery I was hoping for.
How did you notice the DVT? Are you still on Xarelto or have you stoppped taking it?
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My leg was quite swollen, and someone told me to get it checked out. I had stopped taking xarelto 30 days after surgery but am back on it for 90 days.
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In what kind of situation the nail bent? Has it happened to other patients also?
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My leg was quite swollen, and someone told me to get it checked out. I had stopped taking xarelto 30 days after surgery but am back on it for 90 days.
That is your problem right there. You’re literally not listening to your doctor!
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That is your problem right there. You’re literally not listening to your doctor!
In Greece they only advise 30 days of blood thinners post-surgery.
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My leg was quite swollen, and someone told me to get it checked out. I had stopped taking xarelto 30 days after surgery but am back on it for 90 days.
Yes, please go for ultra sound scan for any blood clot.
If no, it may be due to other issue and consult your local doctor to get immediate treatment.
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In Greece they only advise 30 days of blood thinners post-surgery.
For weight-bearing nails only. Precise patients do the full lengthening period.
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For weight-bearing nails only. Precise patients do the full lengthening period.
That’s naive from Dr G then, I’m doing betzbone and using blood thinners for entire of lengthening and 1 month after.
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For weight-bearing nails only. Precise patients do the full lengthening period.
Yes but as OP did gnail the 30 day thing applies, so it's unfair to say he didn't listen to the doctor.
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It's difficult to say what would've contributed to the DVT. The doctor also prescribes blood thinners for 3 days when taking flights. OP was on a long flight which as we know is a major risk factor in developing blood clots, despite taking blood thinners.
I believe there are several other doctors like Guichet and some American ones who don't prescribe blood thinners after a few weeks for weight-bearing nails. They have to weigh up the cost-benefit ratio such as risk of internal bleeding amongst other things. The science is not absolute.
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If you have recent imaging data please put it at this thread. Redact any information that could be used to dox you.
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How is the process going? Any update?