Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: IgnoredByMods on December 29, 2021, 05:51:00 PM
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Mod Note: The OP (original poster) has request to include a footnote warning against HGH. do read the entire topic for the full details on HGH .
" Some patients may want to inject themselves with HGH because they think they can just take it and it'll make them taller. "
This topic is a merge of two topics by the OP
Original Post as follow
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Hi LL Forum! I have been lurking this forum for a while but decided to get more involved here.
I am considering LL however I wanted to know your opinions.
Height: 5'7 (171cm)
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'10 (179cm)
Inseam: 25-26" - Finding trousers is a nightmare as most places in Europe start at 30" inseam clothing for men.
Femur (measured in an MRI scan): 35cm
Tibia: 28cm
Chest: 42 inches (No I'm not very muscular)
Weight: 80kg / 176lbs (17% body fat, weight comes from wide and large upper body).
Rationale: I don't want to go over 5cm for femurs as it appears to me that you start getting complications after that. With tibiae, 5cm will take slightly longer to heal however I do not mind losing some explosiveness. My aim is to maximise recovery pre-LL so I will not be greedy due to the risks involved. I am considering doing 5cm on femurs (internal STRYDE) and 4-5cm on tibiae (internal STRYDE) so the biomechanics are not affected greatly due to the 0.8 ratio between the tibiae and the femurs. My priorities are safety and maximum recovery, not massive gains (i.e. 12-16cm+) which increase risks exponentially. I'm also currently waiting for STRYDE to return as it has full weight bearing capabilities, unlike PRECISE 2.2.
Problems: I am in the 18-25 age bracket (looking to keep some anonymity). My growth plates (epiphysis) are still open according to a radiologist. The scan was taken 3 months ago and the growth plates have shown no signs of closure. Currently unsure when it would be better to go through with my plans for LL. Is it worth taking somatropin/human growth hormone and wait until they close?
I wanted to ask any veterans what exercises I should do in order to maximise my recovery. What kind of stretches should I do in order to reduce the likelihood of complications arising?
Due to having a really long upper body, I was wondering if there is any point worrying about proportions. I am still growing so I am using HGH (grew 0.5cm in 2 months of use) so I can minimise the amount of lengthening needed.
I wanted to do some mock-ups however I am not sure how to go about it. Can someone give me some information on how I could do this?
For context, I am a southern European male living in a really tall region of Western Europe. Most women my age are around my height. I am tired of all the height remarks and short leg comments from both genders. To add salt to the wound, I lost count of the times that I heard "I would date you/hook up with you but you're too short". I want to reach the average so I do not have to compensate to be respected by both genders.
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I have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?
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My gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.
With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.
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I have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?
I just realized I asked the doctor when the post name is quadrilateral w/Paley lol
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My gosh, I thought I had a tall sitting height. You blow mine out of the water.
With your proportions, either 1) you still have massive growth coming in your extremities that hopping on HGH will likely fix, 2) you have androplasia, or 3) you're still in puberty and will be feeling your growth spurt soon. I highly suggest seeing an endocrinologist (better yet a pediatric endocrinologist) to see what's going on.
Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal ::).
Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.
Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.
I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.
I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.
I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members :P.
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I have no idea about how HGH works because I came late for that topic to be a thing for me lol .
Your plan seems reasonable to me , I would just maximize HGH if I was you , in order to grow as much as possible and save some cms on the surgery so I would not rush the surgery for no reasons .
By average , you probably mean your national average because to reach the global one you would be all set with a 5 cm femur lenghetning .
I'm from Europe too a nd waiting for the next weight bearing nail as well for a 5.5/6cm femur lenghetning.
May I ask what doctor you would like to go to ?
HGH is essentially a natural hormone in your body which stimulates growth. If your growth plates are open you can take synthetic HGH to increase your height. This can be done if you have low HGH levels. If you do not have low HGH levels and/or your growth plates are closed, it can cause serious complications and growth will not occur.
I will see a public endocrinologist soon to see if I can get some extra HGH. It would be a nice top-up to what I am getting privately (and it should hopefully boost my height). The private endocrinologist deals more with HGH for aesthetic reasons rather than diagnosing problems.
Yeah, by average I mean my country's average.
It is better to wait for the weight-bearing STRYDE nail. It appears to be the best one so might as well go for it.
I am thinking of going to Paley due to his experience. What about you?
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I just realized I asked the doctor when the post name is quadrilateral w/Paley lol
No worries at all haha, it happens.
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HGH is essentially a natural hormone in your body which stimulates growth. If your growth plates are open you can take synthetic HGH to increase your height. This can be done if you have low HGH levels. If you do not have low HGH levels and/or your growth plates are closed, it can cause serious complications and growth will not occur.
I will see a public endocrinologist soon to see if I can get some extra HGH. It would be a nice top-up to what I am getting privately (and it should hopefully boost my height). The private endocrinologist deals more with HGH for aesthetic reasons rather than diagnosing problems.
Yeah, by average I mean my country's average.
It is better to wait for the weight-bearing STRYDE nail. It appears to be the best one so might as well go for it.
I am thinking of going to Paley due to his experience. What about you?
About Paley I said it several times in this forum , he is a great doctor but he do not perform on you .
Robbins does the job and follow ups are not made by Paley as well so 90k + living expenses in an expensive place for a surgery done by a less experienced surgeon then a lot out there...seems little stretched to me .
It is my opinion tho so no big deal but that's why I asked before (realizing later u mentioned Paley), because I'm from Europe too and wanted to know if you had any in mind here .
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About Paley I said it several times in this forum , he is a great doctor but he do not perform on you .
Robbins does the job and follow ups are not made by Paley as well so 90k + living expenses in an expensive place for a surgery done by a less experienced surgeon then a lot out there...seems little stretched to me .
It is my opinion tho so no big deal but that's why I asked before (realizing later u mentioned Paley), because I'm from Europe too and wanted to know if you had any in mind here .
Paley does one leg and Robbins does the other. That’s why the surgery only takes about 1 hour for femurs and 1.5 hours for tibias. None of us could tell which doctor did which leg unless we asked. Robbins is very experienced with internal nails too. So 100k is “Paley + Robbins” price. Followups will be with Paley if you have serious problems. In my opinion that’s all that matters since small problems can be resolved by any doctors, but we want a very experienced doctor to be there to resolve complex issues. However I feel they should let patients know about this during consultation. I least I didn’t know Paley would only operate one leg until the surgery day, which made me feel bad for a moment.
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Paley does one leg and Robbins does the other. That’s why the surgery only takes about 1 hour for femurs and 1.5 hours for tibias. None of us could tell which doctor did which leg unless we asked. Robbins is very experienced with internal nails too. So 100k is “Paley + Robbins” price. Followups will be with Paley if you have serious problems. In my opinion that’s all that matters since small problems can be resolved by any doctors, but we want a very experienced doctor to be there to solve complex issues. However I feel they should let patients know about this during consultation. I least I didn’t know Paley would only operate one leg until the surgery day, which made me feel bad for a moment.
You certainly have a point but Robbins in an interview said that he did not even used ex fixators ... my point is that we are (not all but a good amount) so selective with doctors and want them 20+ years of experience , good amount of CLL etc. But we are willing to do it with Robbins at Paley institute for 90k + .
I don't want to act stupid here but I feel that this surgery it's difficult for who it's not specialized in it therefore knows just a small % of what can or cannot happen .
For a limb lengthening surgeon specialized in deformity corrections this is a routine surgery and almost every one had learned from Paley anyway .
So ok they do one leg etc. But what makes it more safe at the Paley institute with 90k+ against a 69k of dr.Lee ?
With some extra K u also get accommodation at the institute of dr.Lee which is great and they have a state of the art of rehab center .
Given the fact he did not answear to me in so long Its clear Lee it's not my pick anymore so I am not promoting him but just to compare why (according to me) Paley it's a great place to go but for that money you have better options .
Most of us here stay local for the lenghetning and do it solo or with just a person so Korea or USA might have a difference for and English speaker but not that much to justify 20 k of difference .
Another thing its if u live in Florida then whatever but overall I believe that currently Lee it's the best one giving the experience , his career (Yonsei university and Severance Hospital which is one amongst the best ortho hospital worldwide ) and his prices .
He is also in his prime (50-55 yo) and Paley is close to 70 and therefore retirement.
All in all that is why I believe that especially from Europe , you could save 20k and do it with Lee as safe as with Paley .
Robbins for example did not suggest to TakingAction to slow down the lenghetning with the shin numbness when Paley did and suggests it in its literature .
It's not a big deal but he might have to deal with numbness in the future for such a stupid thing .
All in all you will turn out fine but those small things are what makes me hesitant here .
Again no promotion here , I am having a consultation with dr.Peter Thaller in january so I earn nothing from promoting Lee but if he was more responsive he would have been my choiche .
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Robbins for example did not suggest to TakingAction to slow down the lenghetning with the shin numbness when Paley did and suggests it in its literature .
Robbins was on a honeymoon and it’s Dr Shannon who didn’t suggest slowing down.
I agree 90k+ (or almost 100k) is expansive for “Paley + Robbins” price. Surgeons in the US are just expensive I think. For example Dr Rozbruch charges 125k not because he’s more famous or more experienced than Pelay but he’s in New York where cost of living is crazy. I agree there’re more valuable options to choose for people who are not in US and there’re many good doctors besides Paley.
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Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal ::).
Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.
Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.
I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.
I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.
I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members :P.
You should absolutely put your money towards treating any HGH deficiencies or any other such hormone-related problems, first. It's very likely you won't even need LL if you're treated correctly. I unfortunately didn't address my precocious puberty growing up, and as a result, I lost out on 5-6 inches that I need LL to regain. If you work quickly, you might be able to avoid this mistake & LL entirely.
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Robbins was on a honeymoon and it’s Dr Shannon who didn’t suggest slowing down.
I agree 90k+ (or almost 100k) is expansive for “Paley + Robbins” price. Surgeons in the US are just expensive I think. For example Dr Rozbruch charges 125k not because he’s more famous or more experienced than Pelay but he’s in New York where cost of living is crazy. I agree there’re more valuable options to choose for people who are not in US and there’re many good doctors besides Paley.
I think it makes sense. Dr. Paley is *the* premier leg lengthening surgeon, and while he might not be performing the surgery itself, LL is much more than just the 1-1.5 procedure to install the nails. It involves a lot of other technical know-how that Paley can provide throughout the process.
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You should absolutely put your money towards treating any HGH deficiencies or any other such hormone-related problems, first. It's very likely you won't even need LL if you're treated correctly. I unfortunately didn't address my precocious puberty growing up, and as a result, I lost out on 5-6 inches that I need LL to regain. If you work quickly, you might be able to avoid this mistake & LL entirely.
I feel like it will be a race against time when it comes to HGH and growth plates.
I’ll probably see if I can get some from the public system for cheaper so I can buy many more pens and therefore increase the concentration. The biggest problem will be convincing my GP. However, I assume that with all the evidence that I got from the private clinic it should be enough to get it sorted. 0.5 height increase in 6 weeks with low dosages of HGH in addition to odd proportions should HOPEFULLY raise some eyebrows.
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Hey fellow European! I decided to update this thread.
After taking Human Growth Hormone (HGH) also known as Somatropin, my height increased from 5'7 to 5'8 with consistent use since October. My dosage has increased from 3IU to 6IU.
I will maximise my growth (projected to hit 178-181cm which is 5'10-5'11), I will then then pay for bilateral femurs (4cm gain) at the Schoen clinic under Dr Ian Bacarese-Hamilton for a final 6'0-6'1 height. I am assuming that my growth plates will not close before 5'10-11. If they do not, I will only do 4cm femurs as the recovery is fantastic relative to 5cm+.
Surgery should occur in the summer of 2024.
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Hey fellow European! I decided to update this thread.
After taking Human Growth Hormone (HGH) also known as Somatropin, my height increased from 5'7 to 5'8 with consistent use since October. My dosage has increased from 3IU to 6IU.
I will maximise my growth (projected to hit 178-181cm which is 5'10-5'11), I will then then pay for bilateral femurs (4cm gain) at the Schoen clinic under Dr Ian Bacarese-Hamilton for a final 6'0-6'1 height. I am assuming that my growth plates will not close before 5'10-11. If they do not, I will only do 4cm femurs as the recovery is fantastic relative to 5cm+.
Surgery should occur in the summer of 2024.
Consider yourself lucky, I definitely wish my parents and I knew about growth hormone before my growth plates closed. I'll need one more surgery than you, but hopefully we can both make it to 6'1!
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Consider yourself lucky, I definitely wish my parents and I knew about growth hormone before my growth plates closed. I'll need one more surgery than you, but hopefully we can both make it to 6'1!
I was fortunate enough to learn about LL when I was 18. I was able to discover that my legs did not grow for whatever reason so I'm able to maximise my growth while they're still open. I am even likely to get free HGH as I will see an endocrinologist in the public system in the first week of April!
My ideal scenario would be growth plates closing at 6'1, but if I get 5'10-5'11 I'll consider myself blessed.
Let me know how the surgery goes! What are your reasons for doing LL? Do you have a thread which I can follow? You got this brother!
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I was fortunate enough to learn about LL when I was 18. I was able to discover that my legs did not grow for whatever reason so I'm able to maximise my growth while they're still open. I am even likely to get free HGH as I will see an endocrinologist in the public system in the first week of April!
My ideal scenario would be growth plates closing at 6'1, but if I get 5'10-5'11 I'll consider myself blessed.
Let me know how the surgery goes! What are your reasons for doing LL? Do you have a thread which I can follow? You got this brother!
IIRC, most guys' growth plates close around 17, so it's cool that you got lucky on that front. For me, when I was 16 the doctor showed that I haven't grown in a year. Got xrays on my left knee and wrist, turns out my growth plates are fused. Enter a ton of height dysphoria and realizing that you'll end up shorter than your own sister + a ton of your peers.
I'm 17 now, and fortunate enough to have a family that can afford two surgeries. The timing works out pretty well too, allowing me to recover from the first surgery over summer break, then waiting a year to get the second surgery. I'll definitely start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June this year. Fingers crossed I'm 6'1 in a year and a half, which is my ideal height imo.
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IIRC, most guys' growth plates close around 17, so it's cool that you got lucky on that front. For me, when I was 16 the doctor showed that I haven't grown in a year. Got xrays on my left knee and wrist, turns out my growth plates are fused. Enter a ton of height dysphoria and realizing that you'll end up shorter than your own sister + a ton of your peers.
I'm 17 now, and fortunate enough to have a family that can afford two surgeries. The timing works out pretty well too, allowing me to recover from the first surgery over summer break, then waiting a year to get the second surgery. I'll definitely start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June this year. Fingers crossed I'm 6'1 in a year and a half, which is my ideal height imo.
First thing: you have an Operation Wildfire medal as your pfp, glad to see other CSGO players xD
Yeah I was really lucky in this aspect, the leg ones are the first growth plates to close. Then the upper-body follows and ends at the spine. THEORETICALLY I have 2-3 years until all growth plates close, so fingers crossed that I will reach my goal without surgery!
I was actually misdiagnosed by the radiologist. He claimed that they were closed (but they looked open) so I got a second opinion. The other radiologist claimed that they were open so I disputed the diagnosis. After the review, it was found that they were actually open. So I am quite lucky!
I wonder if I'll be lucky enough for it to close at 6'1 (theoretically it can close now, which is less than ideal). If that happens, I will probably use the surgery money for tooth whitening and other stuff.
However, I was unlucky in another aspect: I was projected to hit 6'3 until I was 10. However, I never had a growth spurt so I continued to grow linearly. Growth patterns are usually linear, then the growth spurt occurs and then it stops. In my case, there was no growth spurt so I kept growing linearly until 5'7, so my bone age is actually in the 14-15 region.
I am stretching, sleeping properly, and exercising a lot as I saw some medical journals claiming that it helped with maximising growth. I am also drinking a lot more diary products (milk, cheese, supplements, yoghurts, etc.) as it resembles the Dutch diet. They must be doing something correct as it's clearly working for me.
My reason for LL was because I live in a tall region in Europe so I get mocked over it ("Napoleon complex"). If I reached 6'1 I'd be above average and would be taken much more seriously socially, romantically and career-wise. I see this as an investment as taller people earn more according to international studies so I'll make my money back eventually.
Once you get in college it starts to bother you as there are so many tall guys. As soon as college started, that's when I started the LL research. And here I am now.
Do you have specific goals for tibia and femurs? Btw do you plan on creating a diary?
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First thing: you have an Operation Wildfire medal as your pfp, glad to see other CSGO players xD
Yeah I was really lucky in this aspect, the leg ones are the first growth plates to close. Then the upper-body follows and ends at the spine. THEORETICALLY I have 2-3 years until all growth plates close, so fingers crossed that I will reach my goal without surgery!
I was actually misdiagnosed by the radiologist. He claimed that they were closed (but they looked open) so I got a second opinion. The other radiologist claimed that they were open so I disputed the diagnosis. After the review, it was found that they were actually open. So I am quite lucky!
I wonder if I'll be lucky enough for it to close at 6'1 (theoretically it can close now, which is less than ideal). If that happens, I will probably use the surgery money for tooth whitening and other stuff.
However, I was unlucky in another aspect: I was projected to hit 6'3 until I was 10. However, I never had a growth spurt so I continued to grow linearly. Growth patterns are usually linear, then the growth spurt occurs and then it stops. In my case, there was no growth spurt so I kept growing linearly until 5'7, so my bone age is actually in the 14-15 region.
I am stretching, sleeping properly, and exercising a lot as I saw some medical journals claiming that it helped with maximising growth. I am also drinking a lot more diary products (milk, cheese, supplements, yoghurts, etc.) as it resembles the Dutch diet. They must be doing something correct as it's clearly working for me.
My reason for LL was because I live in a tall region in Europe so I get mocked over it ("Napoleon complex"). If I reached 6'1 I'd be above average and would be taken much more seriously socially, romantically and career-wise. I see this as an investment as taller people earn more according to international studies so I'll make my money back eventually.
Once you get in college it starts to bother you as there are so many tall guys. As soon as college started, that's when I started the LL research. And here I am now.
Do you have specific goals for tibia and femurs? Btw do you plan on creating a diary?
Really cool to meet another cs player on here, hopefully I can hit faceit lvl 10 sometime this year lol.
It's crazy how genetics and growth works, with delays and such. I personally know someone at my school who's always been shorter than me, but over quarantine grew to 6'2. Crazy stuff. Fingers crossed with good diet and discipline you can make it to 6'1+ without surgery! That'd be the dream. It's definitely a solid height in northern Europe, US too.
I'm going to try to hit 8cm on both the femurs and tibias. Given my age, current flexibility, and time, I should at least have a fighting chance. And yep, I plan to start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June.
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Really cool to meet another cs player on here, hopefully I can hit faceit lvl 10 sometime this year lol.
It's crazy how genetics and growth works, with delays and such. I personally know someone at my school who's always been shorter than me, but over quarantine grew to 6'2. Crazy stuff. Fingers crossed with good diet and discipline you can make it to 6'1+ without surgery! That'd be the dream. It's definitely a solid height in northern Europe, US too.
I'm going to try to hit 8cm on both the femurs and tibias. Given my age, current flexibility, and time, I should at least have a fighting chance. And yep, I plan to start my diary when I get my femur surgery in June.
I haven't played in ages but do you want to have a match sometime? It'd be fun xD
I feel like genetics is the ceiling, the growth itself can be affected by the environment (exercise, nutrition, stress, sleep, stretching, and sun exposure).
That's a very interesting case, some people grow so quickly in a matter of months! I'm really excited for next year as I'll be able to tell whether I hit my goal or not. I guess I'm young enough to brush it off as a late growth spurt. I feel like people demonise you for using HGH / doing LL surgery, Messi is a prime example of being mocked for HGH.
6'1 would be so sweet, I'm burning all my savings so I can reach that goal. Let's see how it goes I suppose!
8cm on femurs + 8cm on tibiae is a very ambitious goal. Are you not concerned about the side effects? Have you considered something along the lines of Paley's option 5 (https://limblengthening.org/lengthening-strategies/)? It would be a lot safer than 2 surgeries!
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I haven't played in ages but do you want to have a match sometime? It'd be fun xD
I feel like genetics is the ceiling, the growth itself can be affected by the environment (exercise, nutrition, stress, sleep, stretching, and sun exposure).
That's a very interesting case, some people grow so quickly in a matter of months! I'm really excited for next year as I'll be able to tell whether I hit my goal or not. I guess I'm young enough to brush it off as a late growth spurt. I feel like people demonise you for using HGH / doing LL surgery, Messi is a prime example of being mocked for HGH.
6'1 would be so sweet, I'm burning all my savings so I can reach that goal. Let's see how it goes I suppose!
8cm on femurs + 8cm on tibiae is a very ambitious goal. Are you not concerned about the side effects? Have you considered something along the lines of Paley's option 5 (https://limblengthening.org/lengthening-strategies/)? It would be a lot safer than 2 surgeries!
I private messaged you my steam profile if you want to add me!
I totally understand how 8cm femur AND 8cm tibia (especially tibia) is very uncommon, but again, given that I'm younger and probably more flexible than most CLLers, and am doing both surgeries one year apart, I believe I have a chance at this. Meck and MyEvolution are good examples of people who lengthened "more than recommended." Also as shown in my previous posts, my proportions won't look too weird afterward. I already have longish arms, and apparently longer legs looks better on a guy anyway. We'll see what happens!
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I private messaged you my steam profile if you want to add me!
I totally understand how 8cm femur AND 8cm tibia (especially tibia) is very uncommon, but again, given that I'm younger and probably more flexible than most CLLers, and am doing both surgeries one year apart, I believe I have a chance at this. Meck and MyEvolution are good examples of people who lengthened "more than recommended." Also as shown in my previous posts, my proportions won't look too weird afterward. I already have longish arms, and apparently longer legs looks better on a guy anyway. We'll see what happens!
Fair enough buddy. Have you considered doing 4cm femurs 4cm tibia 2x? You’d be able to see if 16cm is really for you! I’m only concerned that you might get an injury from 8cm at once in a bone. Look after your health! 4cm in each segment with HGH, hydrotherapy and a good diet twice sounds a lot safer. Dr Ian said that 4cm as a one-off is possible without complications. Best of luck with your journey!
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Fair enough buddy. Have you considered doing 4cm femurs 4cm tibia 2x? You’d be able to see if 16cm is really for you! I’m only concerned that you might get an injury from 8cm at once in a bone. Look after your health! 4cm in each segment with HGH, hydrotherapy and a good diet twice sounds a lot safer. Dr Ian said that 4cm as a one-off is possible without complications. Best of luck with your journey!
I'd rather minimize the # of surgeries I get if possible. The doctor I'm going with said he doesn't insert 4 nails at a time for obvious reasons, and going through two LL surgeries in less than a month's span seems pretty traumatic to me.
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B4 my 8cm Femur LL i could easily palm the floor. i had a 20 cm sit and reach score (bear in mind i have a 93 cm sitting height, and you have 106 cm so your "Flexibility maybe more about short legs than actual muscle/joint flexibility) , after 8cm LL i prob have a 2cm sit and reach, and can barely reach touch the ground whilst standing - keep in mind your flexibility will most likely decrease with age!.
I am 179 cm right now, i wear 4 cm lifts and dream of another ~ 4cm LL on Tibs (to even up my T/F ratio and achieve normal L/B ratio), anything above 6 cm on tibs is deemed as risky by most LLdocs i have spoken with (Mumbai, Barcelona, vietnam, Melbourne), Anyway I doubt i ever will do the Tib CLL ($$ and time off work considerations), and i may regret the loss in flexibilty as well.
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I'd rather minimize the # of surgeries I get if possible. The doctor I'm going with said he doesn't insert 4 nails at a time for obvious reasons, and going through two LL surgeries in less than a month's span seems pretty traumatic to me.
Fair enough buddy. I hope it works out!
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B4 my 8cm Femur LL i could easily palm the floor. i had a 20 cm sit and reach score (bear in mind i have a 93 cm sitting height, and you have 106 cm so your "Flexibility maybe more about short legs than actual muscle/joint flexibility) , after 8cm LL i prob have a 2cm sit and reach, and can barely reach touch the ground whilst standing - keep in mind your flexibility will most likely decrease with age!.
I am 179 cm right now, i wear 4 cm lifts and dream of another ~ 4cm LL on Tibs (to even up my T/F ratio and achieve normal L/B ratio), anything above 6 cm on tibs is deemed as risky by most LLdocs i have spoken with (Mumbai, Barcelona, vietnam, Melbourne), Anyway I doubt i ever will do the Tib CLL ($$ and time off work considerations), and i may regret the loss in flexibilty as well.
You reached a great height! Have you noticed any side effects? Also, how has your life changed since LL (all aspects).
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How did you manage to get an XRAY to check your growth plates? I'm 17 and im wondering if theyre open too.. if so.. HGH brah!
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How did you manage to get an XRAY to check your growth plates? I'm 17 and im wondering if theyre open too.. if so.. HGH brah!
I asked a private consultant about HGH as I believed that my growth pattern was unusual. We agreed to go through with it and I was given a referral to get an MRI for my legs. Received good news and started the treatment.
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A small update:
On Monday, I will see an endocrinologist. If I manage to convince him with the evidence from the private consultant, I will possibly get high dosages of HGH for free for 12-24 months! I am so nervous, let's see how it goes. My goal is to reach 5'10-5'11 (2-3in to go) with HGH and gain 2 inches with LL.
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Update 03/04/2022:
Measured my height, currently standing at shy of 175cm (5’9). HGH is showing great results! I might start taking pictures if people want?
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Also on a side note, I am no longer considering quadrilateral. I am perfectly happy with the results. I only have femur LL in my mind now. It is beautiful how 2 inches changed my perspective, can’t wait to see how it’ll be when I reach 5’11-6ft (assuming I’m lucky enough with HGH).
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Can I have some advice as to how to approach my doctor about getting a bone examination
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I'm so glad you found peace in 2 inches! I bet if i wore 2 inch lifts I would feel much better about my life
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Quick update: Saw a public endocrinologist and he judged me HARD. Looks like I will have to continue funding my own GH. That's fine I guess, I'll just delay LL for a while.
In his own words "It's not worth it, you'll only gain a few inches." Yeah bro that is the point...
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Can I have some advice as to how to approach my doctor about getting a bone examination
Say you’d like to check if your growth plates are open. A leg MRI is great for this. Sometimes hand X rays are done but I’m not a fan of them.
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Say you’d like to check if your growth plates are open. A leg MRI is great for this. Sometimes hand X rays are done but I’m not a fan of them.
Just realized something kinda late... with that sitting height you should have been an absolute giant. Makes me feel a bit better about missing my genetic potential by 2-3 cm lmao
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Just realized something kinda late... with that sitting height you should have been an absolute giant. Makes me feel a bit better about missing my genetic potential by 2-3 cm lmao
I'm wondering what height it would translate to. What do you think?
I personally wouldn't want to be taller than 6'2, knocking your head everywhere doesn't sound fun.
This makes me wonder how tall my kids will be if I have kids (specially as I'll track development closely).
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Another measurement taken today: Knee height = 54cm / 21in. I noticed that on r/tall, I had a similar knee height to someone who's 5'11-6'1. One person who was 6'9 had a 25.5in knee height. Because of this, I believe that I have short femurs (which appears to be the case when I'm on my knees, it looks a bit goofy). Looks like femur LL is the way to go!
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I'm wondering what height it would translate to. What do you think?
I personally wouldn't want to be taller than 6'2, knocking your head everywhere doesn't sound fun.
This makes me wonder how tall my kids will be if I have kids (specially as I'll track development closely).
Given that the average lower extremity/height ratio is around .5, probably 197cm+ to be honest (given that you're not a wild genetic anomaly + tall people usually have long legs proportionally). Yeah I'd agree after 6'2/3 the benefits diminish, but damn, I can't imagine losing that much from what could have been natural height... ouch. Are you sure you don't have a condition of some sort?
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I don’t really know. Many doctors are quite dismissive (went to an endocrinologist and he dismissed me saying it doesn’t matter and that I’m not that below average. Best thing will be to ask my LL surgeon once the time comes. My tibia are not that small. Most of the lost height appears to be in the femurs (I have 36cm femurs). Either it’s genetic, malnutrition, injury or who knows. Either way I think I am lucky relative to the forum. I have a long wingspan, large torso, somewhat long tibiae, long neck, etc. So I’m looking at the positive side, I guess I’m quite literally built for this surgery lmao
I remember @Medium talking about how someone did 2 femur LLs, I guess I could do that due to the femur:tibia ratio being nearly 1.
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I don’t really know. Many doctors are quite dismissive (went to an endocrinologist and he dismissed me saying it doesn’t matter and that I’m not that below average. Best thing will be to ask my LL surgeon once the time comes. My tibia are not that small. Most of the lost height appears to be in the femurs (I have 36cm femurs). Either it’s genetic, malnutrition, injury or who knows. Either way I think I am lucky relative to the forum. I have a long wingspan, large torso, somewhat long tibiae, long neck, etc. So I’m looking at the positive side, I guess I’m quite literally built for this surgery lmao
I remember @Medium talking about how someone did 2 femur LLs, I guess I could do that due to the femur:tibia ratio being nearly 1.
36in femurs? Yeah you're definitely right femur LL is 100% the way to go. Maybe it's just me but it would be on my mind forever if I knew "what could have been," so idk if it were me I would at least want some sort of diagnosis from the doctor. But yeah, you're probably pretty lucky in that case. I'm just glad that I'm getting this all out of the way in HS so by the time I'm in college, I'll be sorta a new person/have time to focus on getting into med school. This whole ordeal is making orthopedics and endocrinology pretty interesting haha. Best of luck on your journey
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36in femurs? Yeah you're definitely right femur LL is 100% the way to go. Maybe it's just me but it would be on my mind forever if I knew "what could have been," so idk if it were me I would at least want some sort of diagnosis from the doctor. But yeah, you're probably pretty lucky in that case. I'm just glad that I'm getting this all out of the way in HS so by the time I'm in college, I'll be sorta a new person/have time to focus on getting into med school. This whole ordeal is making orthopedics and endocrinology pretty interesting haha. Best of luck on your journey
Yeah, 36cm for femurs.
Honestly I don’t blame you. I feel a totally different treatment when I am sitting down (specially if people don’t know me beforehand). LL is definitely the way to go! Have you considered 2 femur LL? If you have long tibiae, you can avoid tibia LL which involves splitting the patella tendon. Many patients get pain from this so it’s worth considering it.
Doctor diagnosis is out of the window for now as they don’t really care unfortunately. I will definitely try to follow this up with someone that cares, this will probably be with my LL surgeon.
Both are amazing fields. I believe that endocrinology isn’t talked about enough in the forum. I hope to stick around to educate people on it.
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Yeah, 36cm for femurs.
Honestly I don’t blame you. I feel a totally different treatment when I am sitting down (specially if people don’t know me beforehand). LL is definitely the way to go! Have you considered 2 femur LL? If you have long tibiae, you can avoid tibia LL which involves splitting the patella tendon. Many patients get pain from this so it’s worth considering it.
Doctor diagnosis is out of the window for now as they don’t really care unfortunately. I will definitely try to follow this up with someone that cares, this will probably be with my LL surgeon.
Both are amazing fields. I believe that endocrinology isn’t talked about enough in the forum. I hope to stick around to educate people on it.
cm* my bad. I got xrays already, and 8cm on both the femurs and tibias would actually create the "normal" tib/fem ratio of .8, plus solve my minor duck feet so that's a plus. I couldn't imagine doing two surgeries on the same bone to be honest
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cm* my bad. I got xrays already, and 8cm on both the femurs and tibias would actually create the "normal" tib/fem ratio of .8, plus solve my minor duck feet so that's a plus. I couldn't imagine doing two surgeries on the same bone to be honest
That’s great to know, I will be following your journey closely!
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cm* my bad. I got xrays already, and 8cm on both the femurs and tibias would actually create the "normal" tib/fem ratio of .8, plus solve my minor duck feet so that's a plus. I couldn't imagine doing two surgeries on the same bone to be honest
Btw I think you should read Sweden's posts. He did a similar lengthening for tibiae. His posts are very informative!
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Hey bro, may you post another update?
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I stopped taking HGH and I'm now preparing for my femur LL in January-February 2024. Will go for the full 8cm!
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I stopped taking HGH and I'm now preparing for my femur LL in January-February 2024. Will go for the full 8cm!
Did you stop at 175cm, that was last mentioned or did you manage to get close to the "projected to hit 178-181cm" which you said
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I stopped at the 175 mark because the cost would be the same as doing LL without the guarantee of growing more. Decided to save up for LL instead.
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Having this sitting height and torso length has its pros and cons. When I am sitting down it can be quite fun to watch people trying to guess my height. I've been mistaken for being 6'3-6 so many times when I'm at a club. The reactions are definitely quite interesting to watch, but some are pretty brutal ::).
Girls love to wear my XL hoodies which is always a fun conversation starter. However, I have a tall person problem without actually being tall. My head touches the ceiling of many cars while I sit down and seats in trains and planes are usually a bit too small.
Thanks for your advice. I will be contacting a GP tomorrow so I can get a referral to an endocrinologist. I started taking low HGH dosages privately and saw a 0,5cm increase in 6 weeks. You might be correct when it comes to the third option. I did not have a major growth spurt during "puberty" years. Instead, I saw linear growth which was constant since childhood.
I can't exactly do both high-dosage HGH and cover the quadrilateral surgery as 1-2 years of high-dosage HGH will basically cost the same as the surgery itself here.
I will see if I can get for cheaper/free in the public healthcare system by presenting evidence of the MRI scan, the doctor's letter stating that growth occurred with 6 weeks of HGH, and stating that I am currently on 0.023mg/kg/day of HGH which is considered a "low" dosage.
I am doing this without telling anyone (and I am therefore self-funding it) as I will be branded a lunatic by family members :P.
Damn brother, I can relate veryyy much to your situation.... my parents though me of some psycho when saw me pinning HGH.
You might also want to look into AIs (Aromatase Inhibhitors) like Letrozole which reduce estrogen in body and hence delay growth plate closure, increasing final height.
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Just a quick note to just go for 8 cm or whatever you can get on femurs bro.
Before going through LL you have no idea how painful and hard it is
Screw proportions and biomechanics. You should not count on your ability to do quadrilateral
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Wearing 2 inch lifts will just exacerbate your problem.
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Damn brother, I can relate veryyy much to your situation.... my parents though me of some psycho when saw me pinning HGH.
You might also want to look into AIs (Aromatase Inhibhitors) like Letrozole which reduce estrogen in body and hence delay growth plate closure, increasing final height.
I thought estrogen made plates fuse faster hence why women dont grow as tall as men on average?
Edit: Ah never mind read your post wrong.
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Does the quadrilateral, lengthen by 1mm / 0.75mm per day (femur/tibia)? or only 0.75 mm / 0.5 mm per day?
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I decided to do bilateral femurs for 8cm. My surgery is in 2 weeks. I’ll make a new diary (Paley Europe).
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No more HGH, I’m now going for LL with the Paley Instiitute at the end of this month. HGH and Aromatase for the dose I was taking was too expensive without guaranteeing results. I’ve now saved up enough to do the surgery thankfully.
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probably a good idea to take some after finishing lengthening .
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Hi everyone! Some of you may know me due to my experiences with Human Growth Hormone. You may want to read more about it here: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=68875.0
I am past that stage now and will be having a surgery at the Paley European Institute in January 2024.
I will try to balance this diary with updates, answering your questions, and sharing my experiences. However, I will also omit certain details which may link back to my identity.
Starting height: 5'8.5 (173-174cm).
Goal height: 180-182cm (5'11-6ft)
I plan on doing 8cm bilateral femurs.
Other random measurements:
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'11 (180cm)
Inseam: 25-26" - Finding trousers is a nightmare as most places in Europe start at 30" inseam clothing for men.
I have some back problems which are making me lose an inch. I expect to regain this inch during my physiotherapy (as the loss of height due to back is due to weak back. abdominal, and glute muscles), this can be fixed quite easily.
I have already paid for my surgery, physiotherapy, accommodation, flights, and other miscellaneous stuff.
I will be having my surgery in the next 2 weeks. I will post an update in 3 weeks. If you don't hear an update, feel free to message me privately. If I don't reply I'm probably dead, lol.
I am taking glucosamine sulphate to ensure that my torso's height is at its peak. I have taken HGH (somatropin) for around a year and grew around an inch. It was too expensive for the dose I was taking (for it to have any impact, I was taking dwarf-level doses). As per this scientific paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4198952/) I was taking 0.033mg/kg/day which was approximately 2.5mg or 7.5IU a day (3x 2.5IU for maximum effectiveness).
There were no guarantees of height increases (which did happen, 1inch) however I want guarantees not "I wish that happens". The price per inch was the same for LL, so may as well get the guaranteed 3 inches.
I'm happy to answer your questions that you have in the meantime.
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UPDATE: NEW DIARY FOR MY SURGERY. IT HAS BEEN BOOKED
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=84991.0
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Feel free to join the d server too: https://-/N5NxGTv5ze
I am not in the cyborg4life d server because the admin is a soy LARPer.
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I am not in the cyborg4life because the admin is a soy LARPer.
lol how so?
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Cyborg is a soy larper? Explain
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Not cyborg4life. The admin Axel runs the server. Dude muted people for saying "maxxing" as a joke. Whole thing was cringe, he isn't even doing LL (and never did). Cyborg4Life is legit but other people run his server.
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was the initial consultation in person or online?
how long did it take to book the surgery date after the initial consultation?
best of luck
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The consultation was in-person. It took 2 months from consultation to the surgery. However, that’s also because I had personal commitments.
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Update: 30/01/2024
The thoughts of a pre-surgery LL patient
Went to the hospital and I am now waiting for the surgery. What can I say?
I keep asking myself: Wtf have I got myself into?
Is this really happening?
What have I done?
Then I remember why I got LL and that’s what’s keeping me going. I’m scared of the pain that’ll come and the risk of complications, but you just have to face them head-on.
I trust that the Paley Institute (the best place in the world for LL in my opinion) will look after me well. I picked the best place so I have full trust in them. I trust that they’ll help me get back to my pre-surgery form in due course. Sure, I don’t expect to go into pro-sports. As long as I can walk, run, and live my life normally I’ll be happy.
This whole thing right now feels surreal as it’s what I’ve worked towards for the past couple of years. Now I have to overcome this hurdle as I’m sure that reaching 180-183 will be a game changer to me.
I plan on updating this diary if everything went well and I’m in good health. Feel free to send messages asking for follow-ups if you’re curious or have questions.
Long Torso is out for now ✌️
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Update: Surgery went well and I feel no pain, no nausea, nothing.
I will be posting further updates on the Limb Lengthening Community: https://-/D34DkWHwc4
Good luck people
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So you did in Poland with PRCECICE or LON? As far as I remember the price was between 250k-300k PLN which makes it 64k Euro in the middle or did it change? There was one person who provided package and price before.
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My nails are PRECISE 2.2 and are the biggest nails according to the surgeon. I can’t remember but if I recall correctly, the 12.5 diameter with the biggest length has a load of up to 60kg if I remember correctly (will need to double check this though).
Yeah the prices are a lot higher. 65400 USD for surgery + physiotherapy. When you consider accommodation, carer, food, supplements, shuttle, the true cost is closer to 80k USD. Prices are increasing in February apparently.
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Making a post-surgery update + rant (02/02/2024).
The Paley Institute itself is amazing, I have zero concerns with them. The surgery went better than expected as I hardly bled (around 5-10x less than average).
In terms of physiotherapy, it has been amazing. The machines really do help and the physiotherapist is really helpful and goes the extra mile to help.
Now, for clarification my concerns that you’ll see next are about a select few bad hospital staff. Most were amazing, but I’ve had 3 extremely bad experiences in my 3-day stay.
For those who don’t know, you don’t stay at the Paley Institute during your hospitalisation (in Europe anyway). You stay at the MediCare Hospital which is their partner hospital.
My first bad interaction was when the anaesthesiologist came into the room to remove the epidural pain killers. The way he took it off felt like he was waxing my back (and as I had a needle attached to my spine, let’s just say that I still have back pain from it). It should go away in a few days hopefully, will update you all on this matter.
The second somewhat unpleasant experience was removing the catheter. I don’t think the nurse did a bad job, but she kind of yanked it and it caused some bleeding. Apparently this is normal, I’m no catheter expert. Thought I’d mention it regardless, just felt like it could’ve been a lot gentler and smoother.
I’ve had some really awesome nurses who went the extra mile. As I want to keep updates brief, I’ll mention the negatives.
One of the really cool nurses who made a big difference mentioned that my IV was too big which causes a bit of unnecessary pain. I don’t think this is a surgeon issue, but more an issue with whoever made the decision to put a huge IV when a smaller one would’ve done the same job with less pain. Something minor but I thought that I’d highlight issues that even nurses brought up.
And the final bad experience was with a nurse who was injecting painkillers in the most painful way (ironic). For the first time ever, the liquid splashed everywhere. It felt like she was pressure washing my veins. Really bad and extremely painful experience, felt like I would’ve been treated better by a zoo. Later I was able to wash myself with the IV on. Now the catch is that the nurses were just sitting there waiting for me to clean myself with only 1 hand (using the hand with the IV is painful). I was given zero help despite only being able to use 1 hand. When the surgeon came in, they started to pretend like they were doing work and started helping. This help was momentarily, as soon as the surgeon left they basically said “Yeah good luck cleaning yourself, call us when you’re done”.
This then died down once he left, and they basically said “Yh so wash yourself, good luck, call us when you’re done”. On the first day the other set of nurses really helped me with cleaning, so this mediocre half-arsed “help” was disappointing.
I had some really positive experiences with nurses too. However, I thought I’d bring these up as I’m sure that Paley does read this diaries. Awesome surgeons and physiotherapists. A good half of the nurses at the hospital were amazing too. However the bad experiences were bad enough that they caused pain and as per the most recent one had nurses who were trying to cut corners which increased pain.
As always, I am posting disc (d) updates here with pictures: https://-/P7eyY47C
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For some reason d1sc0rd is censored lol.
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Dont you think that it would be better to go with Becker in Germany? It's even cheaper than in Poland and quality and outcomes are better known here.
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I decided to make this update (04/02/2024) because my previous posts were mostly complaints. I now want to show people my recovery and my experiences. Just because I only mentioned the bad stuff doesn’t mean that it was all bad. I decided to include the negative angles; however; I will do them some justice by posting the good parts too.
My surgery itself was better than average according to the surgeons. Usually you bleed a lot (500mL from each femur, so 1L in total) which at times requires a blood transplant. I bled hardly anything. Less than 50mL. The skill of the surgeons really shined here. It’s as close as it gets to a perfect surgery. The incisions are very small and not visible at all too.
I have been discharged from the hospital. The trip was pretty rough as I had the cannula taken off so I was in a bit of pain. My carer helped me a lot around the apartment and I was very comfortable.
I’ve been taking a lot of supplements and healthy food. It all tastes crap, but the nutrition that I am getting is superb. I get the food delivered to my apartment. It’s fresh and very healthy.
I seem to get a fever and inflammation when I do exercises. This became apparent when I had a really high fever and was in excruciating pain. The opioids that the Paley Institute made no difference. This was probably because fevers increase your pain sensitivity and the swelling puts more pressure on your broken bones.
I had a high fever at midnight and called the Paley Institute. After explaining that I didn’t feel well, the doctor asked to see pictures of my leg. Once he saw them, he sent someone from the Institute to my apartment at 1am (literally less than an hour of me calling, I had someone coming to my apartment) to deliver the medication. My fever dropped immediately and I slept really well and the pain was gone. The patient care at Paley is truly exceptional, they went the extra mile at 1am to my own apartment, it was really awesome.
While I was at the hospital, I had a physiotherapy session (you have one daily). Everything went well, but I wasn’t able to get into the wheelchair yet as I was weak and not very flexible. They left a machine with me to improve my leg mobility by bending it. Unfortunately the nurses at the hospital didn’t set it up properly and because of that it was hurting my legs. I messaged the patient manager at the Paley Institute, and they sent the physiotherapist after the institute was closed (he had normal clothes on, clearly left work). He was awesome, he helped me stretching and encouraged me to get to the wheelchair. After some stretches I was able to get onto the wheelchair with his help. I’m really thankful, not only he helped boost my recovery and speed it up, but they did this when they had no obligation to do so. I also didn’t bring spare clothes so they gave me some breathable shorts from the Institute. They’re so comfortable and I’m using them to reduce the buildup of bacteria, reducing the risk of infections.
My patient manager is incredibly useful. She called the care company as they didn’t speak English and she helped me get the carer arranged as I needed one to get discharged. She replies incredibly quickly and checks up on me often. She gets things done very quickly too and she’s a really nice person too.
I did my surgery this week and I am now able to walk with a walker without any help. I can bend my leg at least 45 degrees independently (70-80 degrees with help from a machine) and can lift my legs without any issues. My ROM is excellent too, very close to pre-surgery despite me having done the surgery earlier this week.
I would argue that I am recovering a lot faster than your average limb lengthening forum user. I’d attribute this to the fantastic team at the Paley Institute.
My bad experiences were with the hospital. I am yet to have any bad experiences with the Paley Institute itself. I am recovering very quickly and they go the extra mile to make sure you’re healthy. You really get what you pay for. Better physio, better machines, less patients so they can give you more attention, and really rapid support.
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Dont you think that it would be better to go with Becker in Germany? It's even cheaper than in Poland and quality and outcomes are better known here.
I don’t think so. The quality in Germany is debatable. See my latest update. The quality is really awesome. Unfortunately there aren’t many patients so as you correctly said the outcomes are unknown. Hence why I’ve made this diary. The physio is definitely superior, and I personally trust surgeons who were trained by Paley more.
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Torso how do you handle the apartment and food? Is the apartment connected to the Paley Institute in any way or is it just a private apartment you rent and then you order delivery food?
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Torso how do you handle the apartment and food? Is the apartment connected to the Paley Institute in any way or is it just a private apartment you rent and then you order delivery food?
Paley has some apartments available but I personally found them really bad. One of them had a double bed and a normal bathroom (bath tub). The second had an appropriate disabled bathroom but it didn’t have a bed (?), only a sofa bed. I thought both options were moronic so I booked an apartment which has a big comfortable double bed, kitchen, and handles on the toilet seat + seat in the wet room.
In terms of the food, I didn’t want to cook and didn’t want to eat unhealthy. I found this healthy food delivery service which delivers it to my apartment daily. The food is fresh, healthy, and nutritious. Sadly it doesn’t take that good but that’s with all healthy foods, the low sodium and low sugars are felt especially if you’re used to eating unhealthy foods like kebabs, fast food, etc.
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How do I access your updated address https://.gg/P7eyY47C
wish you recover soon
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Why do you lengthen 8 cm on the femur and not 2x4 cm on the tibia/femur?
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How do I access your updated address https://.gg/P7eyY47C
wish you recover soon
The link is 𝕙𝕥𝕥𝕡𝕤://𝕕𝕚𝕤𝕔𝕠𝕣𝕕.𝕘𝕘/ℙ𝟟𝕖𝕪𝕐𝟜𝟟ℂ
Replace it with normal characters.
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Why do you lengthen 8 cm on the femur and not 2x4 cm on the tibia/femur?
It's faster and arguably safer than quadrilateral. I get the maximum gain with femurs, and if I want to do it again I can get 4-5cm with tibias.
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You have crazy sitting height. Definitely short legs.
How is your tibia/femur ratio like? If it's normal ratio, won't lengthening somewhat short legs 8 cm make leg proportions look weird?
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You have crazy sitting height. Definitely short legs.
How is your tibia/femur ratio like? If it's normal ratio, won't lengthening somewhat short legs 8 cm make leg proportions look weird?
Yeah my sitting height is pretty wild. My wingspan is like 6ft.
My tibia/femur ratio is 0.79-0.8 or something, post surgery I’ll have a 0.72-73 ratio or something. I feel like people really overthink proportions. The only people who will notice are LL Forum users who are trained to pick these things up. Also, I’d rather look slightly off and get 8cm of height. It’s all a trade off.
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Update 05/02/2024
Readmitted to hospital: medical emergency: Pulmonary Embolism
Admitted to hospital due to Pulmonary Embolism. Will be watched and have blood tests. I was able to get rid of the most dangerous blood clots (and hence stabilising the condition) because I calculated a new blood thinner dose from their medication to get rid of it (with a little help of clinical research papers). I’m not very worried as I feel like my condition has stabilised due to being a medical geek ;D
The negatives:
Pulmonary Embolism
Yesterday I coughed really big chunks of blood with clots that were approximately 1 inch long. Posted pictures in the server.
I used my background in STEM to calculate a dosage for my blood thinners that would dissolve most of the clots.
Today I saw the Paley Institute surgeon and they did tests on me on oxygen saturation and blood pressure to determine if I had a pulmonary embolism. They also did some physical exams.
I was then sent to the MediCare Hospital to do an angiogram. When I arrived, the nurses were quite dismissive of me having broken legs. There were 2 nurses: a nurse which was around 60 year old who gave me tough soviet lady vibes, and a younger nurse who spoke a few words of English.
My carer told them that I had a surgery and my legs were fragile. While I was transferring myself from the wheelchair to the angiogram machine, the old nurse seemed to be annoyed and picked me up BY MY FEMURS. The other nurse picked me up with the other leg but not quite the femurs. They ignored my groans of pain and just slammed me on the angiogram machine. After I had the iodine marker put in my veins and the imaging was completed, the nurses picked me up by my legs (the older by my femurs) and roughly put me in the wheelchair. Needless to say, I despite going to that hospital now. If they treat private patients like that, I can’t imagine how people are treated in public hospitals.
My legs were hurting for the rest of the day and I had to take some oral opioids to reduce the pain. However, I still have some pain as this old woman thought it was a good idea to pick me up by my broken femurs when she was told that I had a surgery on them. Very dismissive, felt so rush and an inconvenience.
Update: As I write this, I get a call saying that the surgeon wants me to be supervised at the hospital due to my blood clots.
The positives
My walking has improved. The physiotherapist is fantastic and has given me exercises to improve my flexibility. This has allowed me to take consistent steps without stopping. I am also walking a lot safer as I changed walker positions which allows me to put more weight on my upper body.
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There are many good outcomes and positivie diaries + german hospitals are much better than Polish ones especially if you paid higher price for what you could get in Germany but anyway good luck with your recover and keep us posted!
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Sorry to hear that Torso, hope you are feeling better.
Any idea on what could cause the pulmonary embolism?
I thought that was mostly a risk right after surgery but not weeks later.
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Sorry to hear that Torso, hope you are feeling better.
Any idea on what could cause the pulmonary embolism?
I thought that was mostly a risk right after surgery but not weeks later.
I am now in the Cardiovascular Intensive Care Unit. It’s good that the Paley Institute Europe and acted fast and put me in the ICU to prevent further damage (my oxygen saturation was quite low, like 95-96%).
Initially I thought it was a clot embolism because of me coughing blood and large clots.
The angiogram indicates that it’s a fat embolism. These usually happen when fat is released from your femur during nail insertion. I guess I was unlucky.
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There are many good outcomes and positivie diaries + german hospitals are much better than Polish ones especially if you paid higher price for what you could get in Germany but anyway good luck with your recover and keep us posted!
I am seriously considering suing this hospital.
I got admitted to ICU, needed to change beds, and their idea was to have 4 people grab me with a blanket and transfer beds. The issue with that is by lifting the blanket near my legs, they basically lifted my legs very quickly. I started screaming in pain and told them to stop and I’d do it myself.
Second time in a day now, first grabbing me by the femurs, and second by lifting my legs with the blanket very quickly. If you’re a LL patient, you know that it needs to be done slowly otherwise it hurts like hell, especially in the first weeks.
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Update 06/02/2024
Surgeon came to check up on me first thing in the morning. Seems like I’m fine (100% blood saturation). Much better than yesterday, the oxygen therapy was a good shout.
I will start lengthening after I leave the ICU.
Some people messaged me asking about whether I’d do it again.
I feel like complications can happen to anyone. What matters is the surgeons being decisive and taking action immediately so said complications don’t cause damage. In that regard, I feel really safe with Dr Michal and Dr Tomasz. Every time something comes up, they help me rapidly. The physiotherapists also do an amazing job.
The only issues I have are with their partner hospital which don’t really have Paley staff. Some staff in the MediCare hospital don’t seem to know how to handle someone with broken legs. This leads to a lot of pain. I dont think most of them are malicious. However, it happens often enough that I really dislike this hospital.
Essentially, I am really happy with the Paley Europe staff and not with the MediCare hospital staff. I’ve never been hurt by a Paley staff. I would definitely do it again. This complication can happen with any surgeon, but not every surgeon would’ve acted fast enough.
I had a complication which can happen to anyone. What matters is that the team is focused on safety so if any arise you’re treated immediately.
I will send an email to Dr Paley showing my concerns about their partner hospital. It seems like their partner hospital needs some training on orthopaedics as they’re pretty rough at times. Again, this is not every staff, I’ve had some really caring nurses here.
TL;DR; I am well and will leave the ICU after final safety checks are made. I’m here to prevent any lung related problems. I wasn’t admitted for lung damage, but because I was displaying low oxygen saturation so the surgeons acted fast to prevent damage by monitoring me and putting me me on oxygen therapy. Thanks to the surgeons, they’ve been amazing thus far.
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Just spoke to a Cardiologist.
Turns out I don’t have 1 big fat embolism in my lungs.
The cardiologist said that I had a really rare case. In his words, 50-70% of my lungs are covered in very small fat embolisms. This is very rare apparently, it’s as if one big fat embolism split itself into small pieces and filled my lungs with it.
My condition is very stable but I’m pretty scared right now :'(
Hopefully it clears up. I will be transferred to the cardiology ward and stay there for a few days. Right now we’re waiting for my lymphocytes to do their job and metabolise all the fat in my lungs.
Will keep you all updated.
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Thanks for the courage of documenting everything despite your current condition... hope you get well soon :)
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I am seriously considering suing this hospital.
You won't win a lawsuit like this in Poland, unless they actually fk you up
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Seems like a bunch of people were calling Dr Paley as they got worried.
People, I am fine. I’ve never been at risk of any damage at any point.
I made this journal as I thought my complications were cool (don’t really see them often) so I wanted to discuss them with members including the science behind it.
Unfortunately people overreact so I don’t plan on updating this diary anymore.
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And just want to add a note saying that complications can happen to anyone. What matters is how quickly your surgeons react. I’ve had amazing surgeons who acted the moment they saw something. I may have been fine without hospitalisation, but they’re being ultra safe.
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Just deeper that if I was doing this in Turkey I probably would’ve died by now 😂
Having smaller embolisms means that there’s a higher surface area so it’s easier to clean up the lungs. The big ones can cause ischemic strokes or have similar symptoms.
I am pretty interested in medical science so seeing these complications is really cool. Just a shame that I was unlucky to have them 😂.
These complications have nothing to do with surgeon skill. My body just didn’t like LL I suppose, happens.
I’d still do it over again. Every complication that came up was solved very quickly thanks to the attention to detail of Dr Michal and Dr Tomasz. Fever at midnight? Got 1am medication delivered to my door. Bleeding? Saw a urologist to check that there isn’t any damage. Embolism? Saw a cardiologist and my oxygen is being constantly monitored. Right now it’s at 97-98% which is really good.
Couldn’t have chosen a better place to do it. Any complications are dealt with rapidly.
My flexibility is really good and I can walk kind of normally with a walker. Thanks to the amazing physiotherapy and surgery team.
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Just deeper that if I was doing this in Turkey I probably would’ve died by now 😂
Having smaller embolisms means that there’s a higher surface area so it’s easier to clean up the lungs. The big ones can cause ischemic strokes or have similar symptoms.
I am pretty interested in medical science so seeing these complications is really cool. Just a shame that I was unlucky to have them 😂.
These complications have nothing to do with surgeon skill. My body just didn’t like LL I suppose, happens.
I’d still do it over again. Every complication that came up was solved very quickly thanks to the attention to detail of Dr Michal and Dr Tomasz. Fever at midnight? Got 1am medication delivered to my door. Bleeding? Saw a urologist to check that there isn’t any damage. Embolism? Saw a cardiologist and my oxygen is being constantly monitored. Right now it’s at 97-98% which is really good.
Couldn’t have chosen a better place to do it. Any complications are dealt with rapidly.
My flexibility is really good and I can walk kind of normally with a walker. Thanks to the amazing physiotherapy and surgery team.
Are you a vaper by any chance? Paley said vapers are at a bigger risk for fat embolism syndrome. The small fat embolisms are more common due to LL. Big embolisms are more common when you break a bone due to an accident.
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Yikes...I think you're putting too much faith in the "Paley" marketing scheme, these are not normal complications and a pretty resounding rebuke of whatever this "Paley Institute" in Poland is considering this is the first case study done on this forum. I am not surprised by the lack of quality in the accommodations and partners considering he has essentially franchised his name to multiple countries outside the US (as well as 9 different locations in Florida) and continues to upcharge the price of every lengthening service. This has to be at least a 9 figure business endeavor for him now. Just to note that because he was first to introduce cosmetic lengthening to the West 40 years ago does not automatically make him or his associates the best. If I recall correctly, Paley himself doesn't even do most of the surgeries at his own clinic anymore due to age (and probably due to status). To anyone reading, consult multiple doctors and be skeptical of everything they say, because in the end this is a cosmetic procedure and they are going to tell you what you want to hear. Don't confuse quality care with experienced business tactics. As a LL vet, these are very scary complications. I hope you are able to make a steady recovery OP.
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Are you a vaper by any chance? Paley said vapers are at a bigger risk for fat embolism syndrome. The small fat embolisms are more common due to LL. Big embolisms are more common when you break a bone due to an accident.
I have never vaped or smoked.
The reason why Paley said that is because he had a case where a vaper spent 1 year in the ICU under ventilation.
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Yikes...I think you're putting too much faith in the "Paley" marketing scheme, these are not normal complications and a pretty resounding rebuke of whatever this "Paley Institute" in Poland is considering this is the first case study done on this forum. I am not surprised by the lack of quality in the accommodations and partners considering he has essentially franchised his name to multiple countries outside the US (as well as 9 different locations in Florida) and continues to upcharge the price of every lengthening service. This has to be at least a 9 figure business endeavor for him now. Just to note that because he was first to introduce cosmetic lengthening to the West 40 years ago does not automatically make him or his associates the best. If I recall correctly, Paley himself doesn't even do most of the surgeries at his own clinic anymore due to age (and probably due to status). To anyone reading, consult multiple doctors and be skeptical of everything they say, because in the end this is a cosmetic procedure and they are going to tell you what you want to hear. Don't confuse quality care with experienced business tactics. As a LL vet, these are very scary complications. I hope you are able to make a steady recovery OP.
They're definitely pretty rare complications. I had an ultrasound of my liver and kidneys and there is no damage to them thankfully. I have a high concentration of transaminases in my blood which means that my liver is working overtime to clear up the fat emboli. I have a raised heart rate which would indicate that my heart is increasing circulation to prevent clots and to filter the fat embolism particles in the liver. My kidneys have no damage which means that it's handling the excretion of fats well.
I will have a lung tenography to see how it is. After that, I should be healthy again (assuming that the emboli are cleared out / are clearing out).
I don't think it was due to my surgeon. I was am healthy, young, and never smoked/vaped. My bones are also very wide which means that minimal rimming was required. I was probably very unlucky as in theory I'm one of the lowest risk groups. As long as I don't get permanent damage, I don't really care. Praying that it clears up (blood tests are indicating that is the case).
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Did you get both femurs done at one time or one femur at a time? The latter option may have been better.
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Did you get both femurs done at one time or one femur at a time? The latter option may have been better.
I got both femurs done at the same time (bilateral).
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Hi, Hope you feel better soon. Keep Safe!
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Did you make 8 cm?
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Hi, Hope you feel better soon. Keep Safe!
Thank you so much!
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Did you make 8 cm?
Not yet.
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I wonder what could be the source of the pulmonary embolism as I presume they monitor oxygen levels while in the ICU after surgery, and saw no signs of it hence the original discharge from the ICU.
I’m guessing the fat enters the system via the breakage point in the femurs post surgery? Maybe a bit was missed in the reaming during surgery and then entered the system once moving around after the discharge?
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I wonder what could be the source of the pulmonary embolism as I presume they monitor oxygen levels while in the ICU after surgery, and saw no signs of it hence the original discharge from the ICU.
I’m guessing the fat enters the system via the breakage point in the femurs post surgery? Maybe a bit was missed in the reaming during surgery and then entered the system once moving around after the discharge?
It is a pretty interesting one. I didn't have one big fat embolism (the most common type). Instead, I had a pretty rare type where I had very small ones which aren't big enough to cause clots but instead get filtered out by the lungs. It is as if a huge embolism was broken into a million pieces. As they were so small, it would make sense why they weren't detected early on and took a while to show clinical symptoms.
As of today, my symptoms are gone (no more blood) and my oxygen saturation is pretty good (sometimes it gets as high as 100%). Feeling quite optimistic now.
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Good to know. It is good news. :D
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Sorry to hear of your complications @Longtors. Wishing you a smooth ride ahead from here. Out of interest, did the FE happen 6days after surgery? Typically such a complication happens close to the surgery right with the highest FR risk being during surgery then quite high the days immediately following (and the risk of FE/ PE drops off significantly after 2 weeks post op)?
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Did LongTorso survive the pulmonary embolism? He hasn't replied on here in over a month. Praying he is okay.
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Hi LongTorso, Hope you are feeling better now!
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Update 18/03/2024
TL;DR I have severe nerve pain and total loss of sensation in my right leg despite taking the maximum dosage of a nerve painkiller (pregabalin (600mg)).
On Thursday March 7, I felt an electrical shock sensation in my right leg during a physiotherapy session. By the next day, I lost complete sensation of my right leg in the lower third of the right, affecting the ankle and Achilles tendon. I was advised to stop lengthening on Saturday March 9, but this missed the root cause of the nerve problems.
On Saturday March 9, the loss of sensation expanded to include the middle third of my shinbone and the right side of my knee. If you look at a dermatome map, you can see that this correlates with the L4 nerve region. This is pretty interesting given that in February I complained of back pain in the L3-L5 regions after removing my epidural.
Symptoms over the following days (Sunday 10th March to Wednesday 13th March) worsened:
- An S-shape numbness across the lower leg,
- Nerve pain which feels like someone is trying to rip my skin off with their nails,
- A sensation of overheated nerves, which I theorise might be the brain's response to the lack of sensation, attempting to 'turn up' the nerve signal (electricity) which generates heat,
- A strange sensation similar to strong winds against my skin.
On Wednesday 13th March, the pain was so unbearable so I went to seek help at the clinic at 4pm (1 hour before closing). Despite taking the maximum dosage of nerve painkillers I was in agonising pain. The doctors were gone but there was a really kind physiotherapist who gave a nerve massage. The massage provided the intensity of the symptoms temporarily but it did not alleviate my symptoms entirely.
On Thursday 14th March, I contacted the doctors and was told that there is little that can be done and they will get an external anaesthesiologist to see me on Friday 15th March.
On Friday 15th March, the anaesthesiologist used an ultrasound to locate my femoral artery. Once he did this, he followed it to find my saphenous nerve. His idea was that he will do a nerve block, and if my symptoms go away because of the block in that region, then it is likely that the nerve problems came from that region.
The procedure was extremely painful and left a bruise. The way it works is, they grab a needle which is about 5cm, they stuck it inside my leg very quickly (this avoids the needle tilting), and then they were rotating the needle inside my leg for a few minutes (extremely painful, it felt like my nerve was being scratched). After this, they injected lidocaine and the neuropathic symptoms were gone. This gave us the final diagnosis: adductor canal syndrome.
I spoke to some Paley US patients and apparently this syndrome is common in the US clinic. According to a Paley Europe physiotherapist, there was another LL patient who had similar symptoms to me. I was disappointed that the lead clinic (Paley US) does not make it clear that complications are a lot more common than they advertise. It gives patients misinformed expectations as the Paley brand has created this perception that everything will be fine but me and other patients have experienced so many complications. More transparency is needed with the entire Paley brand, especially in the US clinic.
I was offered to get an extremely painful nerve long-lasting block (which will not regain my sensation) or I could do a surgery which regains my sensitivity in days. Every rational person would rather have a comfortable surgery which restores your sensation instead of a "bandage" procedure where your nerves are scratched (unsure if it was actually scratched or if it's the feeling) to decrease the nerve sensitivity and then a long-lasting nerve block which doesn't restore sensation to your leg.
During the weekend (Saturday 16th March and Sunday 17th March) I informed the surgeons that despite the nerve block procedure my nerve symptoms were returning as the block wore off. On Sunday 17th March I requested to see a doctor the next day to discuss the possibility of doing the surgery to restore my nerve as I couldn't take this anymore.
On Monday 18th March I spoke to the surgeon saying I wanted to do the surgery and that was it really. After that I was told by the Limb Lengthening Coordinator at the Paley Europe clinic that the surgery wouldn't be scheduled until I received the price estimate.
Then I receive it: 6980 euros for a simple 20-30 minute surgery (open leg, move muscle so it doesn't pinch the nerve, stitch leg) and a 1-day hospital stay in a Polish hospital.
I shared this cost with other LL patients in Paley Europe and they sent me costs of nerve decompression surgeries in Poland. The cost is around 1000-4000 zloty which is less than 1000 USD (around 800 euros). I'm not sure if this is the normal pricing or if I'm being taken advantage of due to the pain and honestly it doesn't matter. I will check the price of the private hospital next to me, and if it's 10x cheaper I will do it with them instead.
If it's indeed 5-10x cheaper for a surgery in the same private hospital, I will be really shocked. This paragraph is a bit of a rant as I think the cost is excessive for Poland given what other private hospitals nearby with top surgeons charge. It's not about the money, but about the principle. If there is an equally safe surgery which is 10x cheaper at the same hospital, the cost strategy of Paley Europe seems really uncompetitive for complications. This surgery is extremely simple, low-risk, and takes less than 30 minutes. I am only staying in hospital for 1-day so why am I being quoted 7500 USD when I've seen a nerve decompression surgery (for the elbow, but still) costing 500 USD nearby?
My discussions with another limb lengthening patient from Paley Europe revealed similar shock at the quote I received. We thought that the surgery would be 2,000 USD (Paley premium) as the local costs are 500-1000 USD. We had both anticipated a "Paley premium" but not to the extent of a 5-10x multiplier over local rates. If it's really that much cheaper, I recommend that future Paley patients with complications get the surgeries in nearby private hospitals as all clinics overcharge a lot.
Now, as of today, I've had an agonising nerve block procedure and non-stop nerve pain for the past 10 days. I just want this agony to end.
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Update 18/03/2024 (Psychologist Appointment)
TL;DR This is a really personal post where I share my thoughts about my journey. I shared them with the Paley Europe psychologist and I thought I'd share how I am here as people have been requesting for updates. I feel lonely. I feel scared. I feel that I am not in control.
Today I spoke with a psychologist from the Paley Europe clinic. She understood my English but struggled to speak English so we used Google Translate to communicate. Would be nice if we had an interpreter.
Last week I dislocated my left knee and tore my ligaments on my left leg as I fell. It was traumatising and I felt so vulnerable. I called the Limb Lengthening Coordinator and didn't get a reply. I called the doctor and he didn't pick up (understandable, he was busy with another patient). I called the shuttle driver and didn't get an answer (I understand, he left his phone in the car).
Now imagine me, a guy who is barely in his 20s, laying in wet concrete floor screaming in pain from the top of my lungs because I had a dislocated left knee. I partially tore my patella ligament and my MCL. My lower leg was perpendicular to my upper leg, that's how bad it was.
I called everyone I knew but no one picked up, I felt so vulnerable and just felt like breaking down crying. Then, I decided to call the CEO of Paley Europe. He has been extremely kind to me since I had the embolism. He paid me a visit in hospital and I really appreciate his help. He was able to get me the shuttle when my knee was dislocated.
I had an x-ray done and then an ultrasound to see if my ligaments were fine. They weren't. I tore my MCL and patella ligament partially. Thankfully my meniscus was fine.
I am now ok and I regained my ROM on my left leg.
However, today during my appointment with the psychologist I poured my heart out. And I'm sharing it with you.
I feel lonely here. All my family and friends are in another country. If something happens to me, I am relying fully on the Paley Europe clinic.
And who was the only person I could rely on a Monday morning with a dislocated knee while crying and screaming from pain on the floor? The CEO. This makes me feel so vulnerable... what happens to me if I have an emergency on a weekend?
During the weekends, the clinic is closed and everyone takes hours to answer (or sometimes they only reply on Monday). Understandable, they have a life and family. However, I feel so vulnerable because I feel like if I have an emergency, I cannot get immediate help. The emergency services here hang up on me before as they didn't speak English. Anyone including the LL coordinator who is the person who's supposed to help you with issues take ages to reply during times of need.
During my conversation with the Paley Europe Psychologist, I told her everything in this post.
I genuinely miss being in hospital. There I could press a button and someone would take care of me and speak to me for a bit. Now I am alone in my apartment, the only socialising I have is online with my friends and with gaming. But to me this isn't enough as I'm not used to this. I am not ashamed to admit that I cried about this in my room alone before. I toughened up since then I guess but deep down it still hurts.
During my conversation with the psychologist, I told her everything (everything in this post, read below for the next part).
I've had quite a few severe complications so far and I feel like I've lost control of my life.
- When my catheter was removed, I was peeing blood for 4 weeks because it was removed roughly.
- After my epidural was removed roughly, I've had spinal pain that has not gone away.
- I've had a really serious pulmonary embolism which made me cough huge clots of blood (3-5cm long). 50-70% of my lungs were covered in fat and I spent a week in an Intensive Care Unit to treat my condition. This specific embolism was rare so the doctor in charge of me (a cardiologist) was using research papers to find an effective treatment.
Let's pause for a second, now imagine this. You are alone in a foreign country. You feel lonely and vulnerable (read what I said above) and now you've got such a nasty embolism that someone's reading scientific journals to find a cure. Yes, I was terrified and I think I've just come to terms with it.
- I dislocated my knee and tore some ligaments. I couldn't get help from anyone but the CEO on a Monday morning when the clinic was open. What will happen to me if I have another emergency? What if that emergency is on the weekend? In my head, if I found it so hard to get help when I was screaming on the floor when the clinic was open, what will I do when it is closed?
- I have a nerve complication which gives me excruciating pain. I am in agony from this. I am now scared of moving my leg because if I make a wrong movement I'll have a bunch of painful symptoms.
This is what I told my psychologist and I thought I'd share it.
I feel lonely as I hardly get human interactions.
I feel like I am not in control anymore as something bad keeps happening.
I feel scared because I don't know what will happen to me if I have an emergency at night or at a weekend.
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Sorry to hear of your complications @Longtors. Wishing you a smooth ride ahead from here. Out of interest, did the FE happen 6days after surgery? Typically such a complication happens close to the surgery right with the highest FR risk being during surgery then quite high the days immediately following (and the risk of FE/ PE drops off significantly after 2 weeks post op)?
Hey! Yes that is right. I had my embolism nearly a week post surgery.
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Did LongTorso survive the pulmonary embolism? He hasn't replied on here in over a month. Praying he is okay.
Thanks for checking up on me. I survived. I posted two updates sharing what complications I have now (nerve pain) and how I am currently feeling. Enjoy the reading!
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Yikes...I think you're putting too much faith in the "Paley" marketing scheme, these are not normal complications and a pretty resounding rebuke of whatever this "Paley Institute" in Poland is considering this is the first case study done on this forum. I am not surprised by the lack of quality in the accommodations and partners considering he has essentially franchised his name to multiple countries outside the US (as well as 9 different locations in Florida) and continues to upcharge the price of every lengthening service. This has to be at least a 9 figure business endeavor for him now. Just to note that because he was first to introduce cosmetic lengthening to the West 40 years ago does not automatically make him or his associates the best. If I recall correctly, Paley himself doesn't even do most of the surgeries at his own clinic anymore due to age (and probably due to status). To anyone reading, consult multiple doctors and be skeptical of everything they say, because in the end this is a cosmetic procedure and they are going to tell you what you want to hear. Don't confuse quality care with experienced business tactics. As a LL vet, these are very scary complications. I hope you are able to make a steady recovery OP.
I made a steady recovery for the lungs I believe (haven't had a final scan to see if it fully cleared up though). I've had new problems since. Hope you enjoy the read!
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Despite the two posts, I am really thankful for the support when it was time to receive it.
I was given steroids to help the pulmonary embolism go away.
I was given a custom knee orthosis to keep my knee straight when I dislocated it.
I was offered a back MRI but I'm too scared to do it because we don't know if active PRECISE nails inside a patient are safe. Nuvasive has not certified it so. I didn't want to risk it despite having chronic back pain in the area of the epidural.
Someone came off to drop aspirin and paracetamol when I had a fever at night on the first few days post-surgery. I was crying in pain as not even a couple tablets of tramadol could reduce the inflammation pain.
My nerve issues got identified within a week (however I feel like I had to push a bit to get things moving faster and to get a diagnosis). There was a non-invasive attempt which wasn't guaranteed to work, but at least we got a diagnosis. Now I've been offered a surgery to fix this.
When I get to the treatment, it is fantastic. I have no complaints about any of the treatments I received. Dr Michal and Dr Tomasz have solved them.
The physiotherapy is top class, I have reached full range of motion in my quads and other muscles. I am walking very well thanks to their support and encouragement to keep me pushing. I would argue that Paley Europe has PTs which are even better than the ones in the USA as they train for longer.
Exercise is what keeps me sane currently. I am trying to entertain myself with business work, exercise, and movies.
I don't doubt the ability of the clinic to find solutions to my problems and to solve them. However I find that sometimes it takes quite a while to reach the person you need. For example, recently I didn't receive my PT timetable so I sent a message to the PT coordinator on Sunday at around 5pm. I only got a response showing my PT timetable on Monday at 9:45am and it was from the Limb Lengthening Coordinator. From the time I received my PT, I had 2 hours to plan myself accordingly so that I replied to work emails, showered, had breakfast, did warm-up exercises for PT, and got dressed. This leaves little time for me to plan my day as things feel very last minute at time.
Deep down I know that I'm in good hands, they're all really qualified. But I'm still terrified of this whole process regardless. Something new is always coming up, and it takes a bit of persistence to get help. That, and me feeling like I have no social net here to fall back on.
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The ForumAdmin has edited my diary, ignoring my request to provide a more accurate and representative of this diary.
For all readers, take this diary as partially fake, exaggerated, or fictional.
The moderators of this website have refused to allow me to provide proof of claims in my diary (making it more credible or high-quality). Thus, they prefer traffic to this diary over providing credible, high-quality diaries with medical images to this diary.
Due to the lack of cooperation, I decided that I will no longer update this diary until ForumAdmin allows me to provide an accurate, fact-checked diary.
To emphasise, this diary is partly exaggerated and in retrospect I wanted to fix it and provide proof, but the forum admins have refused to give this opportunity.
Assume this diary to be fully fictional, exaggerated, or downright fake as there is no evidence whatsoever (supported by the forum admins).
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Because the ForumAdmin has edited my diary without my permission (I asked for something completely different) I cannot confirm which updates are mine and which ones are not.
The first (original) post is clear but the rest isn't. The ForumAdmin has asked for a good reason in this thread: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=85201.0
I hope that this is a good reason, there are multiple authors (not just me, the supposed patient).
The other good reason? I have some CDs with X-Rays and some reports. At the time of some of these updates I wrote what I thought was correct, but this was not the case once I saw a doctor. In many updates, the diagnosis and prognosis are a lot different from what I said. Now, with a second author, this diary is a whole mess.
This diary is full of inaccuracies and was written on emotion. Very disappointing to see an unwillingness to fix this.
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Because the ForumAdmin has edited my diary without my permission (I asked for something completely different) I cannot confirm which updates are mine and which ones are not.
The first (original) post is clear but the rest isn't. The ForumAdmin has asked for a good reason in this thread: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=85201.0
I hope that this is a good reason, there are multiple authors (not just me, the supposed patient).
You are making a incorrect statement that anyone can verify easily.
In case you are unaware, there is a forum message which states clearly when a post is edited. the only post edited is the original 1st post of this topic
" Last Edit: March 28, 2024, 08:26:08 AM by Admin »"
with the following edit added to the post
Mod Note: The OP (original poster) has request to include a footnote warning against HGH. do read the entire topic for the full details on HGH .
" Some patients may want to inject themselves with HGH because they think they can just take it and it'll make them taller. "
This topic is a merge of two topics by the OP
Original Post as follow
For all readers, take this diary as partially fake, exaggerated, or fictional.
The moderators of this website have refused to allow me to provide proof of claims in my diary (making it more credible or high-quality). Thus, they prefer traffic to this diary over providing credible, high-quality diaries with medical images to this diary.
Due to the lack of cooperation, I decided that I will no longer update this diary until ForumAdmin allows me to provide an accurate, fact-checked diary.
To emphasise, this diary is partly exaggerated and in retrospect I wanted to fix it and provide proof, but the forum admins have refused to give this opportunity.
It's quite clear to anyone with a unbiased view that you are the only one choosing not to update the diary with any new information, and using this as a threatening tactic to delete the old diary , which we will not accept due to the issue of integrity
Since you have cast doubt on the integrity of your own diary, and do not wish to update. kindly do as you say and do not continue to stir drama on this matter. This topic will be locked
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I decided to restart my diary as unfortunately the admin decided to merge a HGH diary with a LL diary without my permission which made it a whole mess. When I complained they ignored me and closed the diary, very sad that they just don't care.
The previous diary also was very vague on complications and as it was written right when they happened it was exaggerated as the diary was used as a rant rather than a factual diary. Because of this, I want to give patients a real factual diary with useful medical information rather than a rant diary full of exaggerations on the pain and what actually happened to pain me in a better light. I want to be reasonable so patients make an informed choice.
Starting measurements
Morning Height: 5'8.5 (173cm)
Sitting Height: 3'6 (106 cm)
Wingspan: 5'11 (180cm)
Inseam: 25-26" (Yes, that's right, complete nightmare to find clothes)
Femur (measured in an MRI scan): 45.7cm
Tibia: 36.5cm
Tibia/femur ratio: 0.78
Chest: 42 inches (No I'm not very muscular)
Weight: 81kg / 176lbs (17% body fat, weight comes from wide and large upper body).
Now, this sounds strange. You're saying 80 cm for the legs but 106cm sitting height? Is it the glutes? No. I have pretty bad lordosis and some mild scoliosis which takes away quite a bit of height while standing.
Limb analysis from my pre-surgery appointment:
Right knee full extension and Ely test negative.
Left knee full extension and Ely test negative.
Mild Varus Knee (Corrected after surgery)
Left Leg Step Length: 58.3cm
Right Leg Step Length: 57.7cm
Length of gait cycle: 116.1cm
Width of gait cycle: 13.7cm
Pre-surgery I did a gait analysis which analysed lower body kinematics, lower body kinetics, temporal and spatial, MAP, EMG, Hip Flexion VS Extension, and Displacement. Pretty interesting data but my brain isn't big enough to understand what any of that means. Makes sense to the physios and doctors so that's good enough for me.
Smoker: Never
Vaping: Never
Chronic diseases: None
Permanent Medications: None
Previous Surgical Procedures: None
Sports Activity: Occasionally go to gym (1-2x a week, maybe 3 if I'm very motivated).
I avoided doing strength training 1-2 years before my surgery because if my tendons are too strong they could possibly bend the nail.
Measurements at the time of writing this diary (5.2cm into lengthening):
Morning Height: 5'10 (178cm)
Weight: 75kg / 165 lbs (Lost quite a bit of weight from LL)
Inseam is approaching 30" which is pretty nice, my trousers actually fit me properly now.
Rest of the measurements are pretty similar I guess.
In this diary I will talk about my experiences in surgery and as a current LL patient doing aggressive physiotherapy.
I will also talk about my experiences with Dr Paley, Dr Deszczyński, Dr Albrewczyński, and physiotherapists.
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Why did you decide to do limb lengthening?
Many people decide to do LL because they are insecure or have poor dating prospects. My situation is different.
I want to do LL because of the social benefits that come with being taller. The taller you are, you are perceived as a better leader and thus more competent. These biases mean that if you are a business owner, it makes sense to do LL. Increasing your chances of getting a high-value contract means that the surgery will pay for itself eventually.
I have a good dating life and I am relatively happy with my life. I have a tall sitting height so I notice that people treat me differently when they see me as being taller. These micro-interactions reaffirmed my desire to do LL. By doing LL I will increase my success in business (confidence is a result of positive reinforcement by others, taller people are praised hence why they are perceived as more confident).
TL;DR Not for dating or women. I did LL because it will improve my business and job prospects.
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Pre-Surgery Thoughts
Went to the hospital and I am now waiting for the surgery. What can I say?
I keep asking myself: What have I got myself into?
Is this really happening?
What have I done?
Then I remember why I got LL and that’s what’s keeping me going. I’m scared of the pain that’ll come and the risk of complications, but you just have to face them head-on.
I trust that the Paley European Institute will look after me well. I picked the Paley European Institute because they are a clinic which focuses on deformities (most of their patients appear to be children with congenital deformities). This means that lengthening is a relatively standard procedure for them and pretty simple. If any complications arise they are more than ready to deal with them. The proximity to the UK was a big plus too. The reason why I decided to do my surgery with Dr Deszczyński was that he is a surgeon in what I would argue to be in their golden years. Dr Paley is an old man, I don't understand why people insist on going to him. This is especially true if they take up his offer in Europe. Who in their right mind would want an old surgeon who is jet-lagged to do their surgery? I think that there is some arrogance from his part for doing this in the first place. So he does the operation then leaves the patients at the care of the local doctors and physiotherapists? I have a medical background; to me, Dr Paley doing this is terrible because he is doing things his own way (which might not be at the best standard due to the conditions above) but also he does things his way then if something goes wrong it falls back on the local clinic. If I were to do my surgery in the USA, Dr Robbins would be my surgeon as Dr Paley no longer does the surgery (unless it's on one leg, but not always). I don't think that Dr Robbins has the reputation to charge that much, especially when his clinic has worse physiotherapists (Polish physiotherapists spend 5 years in focused training, the US hardly has specialised training for them as 4 years in college are broad).
I planned this surgery thoroughly. I bought Vitamin A,B,C,D, and E in addition to Omega 3,6, and 9, zinc, copper, magnesium, selenium, iodine, manganese, and calcium supplements. I bought gym weights to keep myself fit and healthy. I booked a carer for 31 days for 12 hours a day. I ordered healthy meals from a catering company, 5 meals a day (3000 kcal in total in addition to a protein shake).
I picked the best place in my mind so I have full trust in them. I trust that they’ll help me get back to my pre-surgery form in due course. Sure, I don’t expect to go into pro-sports. As long as I can walk, run, and live my life normally I’ll be happy.
Sure, you can argue that X doctor in a part of America is better. However, I see no evidence to suggest this. The American PT teams in the "best" clinics are inferior to European ones. You see a different PT every time. The new PT won't know your condition so you'll receive a worse, generic treatment.
This whole thing right now feels surreal as it’s what I’ve worked towards for the past couple of years. Now I have to overcome this hurdle as I’m sure that reaching 180-183 will be a game changer to me.
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Why Poland? It's almost as same price as western countries with more experienced doctors. I am from Poland I know about this institute and its prices.
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I decided to restart my diary as unfortunately the admin decided to merge a HGH diary with a LL diary without my permission which made it a whole mess. When I complained they ignored me and closed the diary, very sad that they just don't care.
You were warned already not to stir up drama . Unfortunately you choose to do it for reasons only you know. You were not ignored, your request was denied and you started making exaggerated claims/false accusations toward the mods.
The moderators of this website have refused to allow me to provide proof of claims in my diary (making it more credible or high-quality). Thus, they prefer traffic to this diary over providing credible, high-quality diaries with medical images to this diary.
Due to the lack of cooperation, I decided that I will no longer update this diary until ForumAdmin allows me to provide an accurate, fact-checked diary.
A example of the false accustations you made against the mods here, after your request to delete your old diaries was denied. Diaries will not be deleted on a whim, to keep the integrity of these topics in check.
Just to be clear, what the OP meant by " the mods refused to allow me to provide proof of claims in my diary". is that
a) he wants his diaries topic to be deleted first so he can start a "new diary " with new images/new thoughts
b) his request was denied, he was given the option to continue the existing diary or start a new topic.
c) he insist that his existing diaries be deleted first and state that he will not post anything new if his request is not met.
d).his threats are not agreed to and his topic is locked
e) he decide to go back on his own promise and start a brand new topic anyway, and continue to make false claims about the mods, after being warned about his behaviour.
Due to persistent behaviour , this diary topic will be locked and OP posting rights suspended for a month. A potential ban will also be discussed for the account.