Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Medium Drink Of Water on October 19, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
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I'm not an expert on LL; you may know more than me about certain technical details. I had the surgery in 2007 and can provide a recovered patient's insights and opinions from a long-term perspective.
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I'm not an expert on LL; you may know more than me about certain technical details. I had the surgery in 2007 and can provide a recovered patient's insights and opinions from a long-term perspective.
Thanks for doing this. I'm 168cm (5'6) and 22 years old, which may be similar to your situation back in 07.
1) It's been 14 years since you've done this. Most that do this, never come back to this forum. You're still here though. Is it just to genuinely help others on here or do you still have height on your mind?
2) From your perspective, do you think your experience would of been more successful by any metric (less pain, less complications, more height) if you would of done it today vs 07?
3) Diminishing returns. As I'm 5'6, I've heard this surgery is life changing for someone my height. As for someone who is let's say 5'9, not so much. Do you agree with this statement? How satisfied are you at 5'10 and how has it changed your life around work, women, friends, family?
4) Put yourself in my shoes. 5'6. 22. WFM. Healthy weight and flexible. Have more than enough money for 10+ surgeries. Willing to spend a lot more money on the best full-time PT, caretakers etc and pick the best of the best surgeons. My femurs are naturally short (same length as tibia). Is this a no-brainer surgery to be 5'9 or 5'11?
5) How are you mobility wise now? 14 years later? from 0-100% (100% being your mobility pre-surgery), where are you on this spectrum?
I appreciate you doing this!
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1) It's been 14 years since you've done this. Most that do this, never come back to this forum. You're still here though. Is it just to genuinely help others on here or do you still have height on your mind?
I enjoy hanging out with my people. I've never been happier than when I was living with other LL patients in the Nis Vojna Bolnica and Guang Ji Hospital. We all had so much in common personality- and experience-wise even if we were so different in other ways. A small flock of other black sheep to belong to briefly.
Of course I wish I could be 6'. Who under that height doesn't? But there's no way I will ever get femur LL. I'd considered it in the past but that door is now closed permanently. 5'10 is plenty anyway.
2) From your perspective, do you think your experience would of been more successful by any metric (less pain, less complications, more height) if you would of done it today vs 07?
Assuming I would be in the same financial situation now as I was then, no. I think things are worse now for budget LL'ers than they were 14 years ago. Imagine a clinic that charges $33,000 (that's what 14 years of inflation did to the $25,000 I paid) all-inclusive for LL (Ilizarov frame with a proprietary spring-loaded heel attachment to stretch the Achilles tendon while you lengthen) and five months of hospitalization with Denny's- or mediocre Chinese restaurant-quality meals, caretakers, a physical therapy gym (sometimes staffed, sometimes not), and at least one doctor on duty 24/7. I don't even know where I would go with that budget today.
People with a lot of money are certainly better off now with more doctors to choose from and better internal nails, though.
3) Diminishing returns. As I'm 5'6, I've heard this surgery is life changing for someone my height. As for someone who is let's say 5'9, not so much. Do you agree with this statement? How satisfied are you at 5'10 and how has it changed your life around work, women, friends, family?
It's been a huge change in all aspects of life. Probably a combinaiton of more respect from others just because of stature alone, and internal self-confidence from knowing I'm taller. And the respect and self-confidence then interact and keep boosting each other in a virtuous cycle. I've never been a 6' alpha chad so I can't be sure getting that tall wouldn't be just as life-changing.
4) Put yourself in my shoes. 5'6. 22. WFM. Healthy weight and flexible. Have more than enough money for 10+ surgeries. Willing to spend a lot more money on the best full-time PT, caretakers etc and pick the best of the best surgeons. My femurs are naturally short (same length as tibia). Is this a no-brainer surgery to be 5'9 or 5'11?
I think a femur surgery is a no-brainer for you. For an internal tibia surgery, a slit is cut into the patellar ligament and the nail is inserted and then removed through it. My patellar ligament didn't react well to this and I've had mild tendonitis there ever since.
A lot of people don't get this problem and many doctors say they've never heard of it, so you might consider going for two surgeries. Splitting up the height increase between femurs and tibias may help you avoid the issues I mention in the next question. Lengthening three inches on the tibias alone wasn't ideal.
5) How are you mobility wise now? 14 years later? from 0-100% (100% being your mobility pre-surgery), where are you on this spectrum?
Mobility is pretty good. My estimate overall is about 90%. I used to be able to put my palms on the floor with my legs straight. Now I can get the palms 3" from the floor. Leg strength seems to be the same as before. Balance is something that doesn't seem to improve with time because the center of gravity is higher and won't change no matter what; I notice I'm more wobbly and sometimes need to pay attention to balance, especially when I'm getting up or walking through cramped spaces with a lot of obstacles to avoid and turns required. Before, balance was nearly perfect and automatic. Same with agility; it seems to have a lower ceiling for what's possible now. Moving a long leg is always going to be more difficult and slower than moving a short leg.
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How private have you kept this procedure?
And at what point did you think it's your new normal height and felt you no apprehension while meeting old acquantainces?
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Why femur lengthening no longer an option mdow? Is it an age thing?
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How private have you kept this procedure?
And at what point did you think it's your new normal height and felt you no apprehension while meeting old acquantainces?
I kept it absolutely as private as I could. I only told close family I actually lived with at the time. They would certainly know something was up if I mysteriously disappeared for five months and came back taller and in a wheelchair. I planned to tell everyone else that I grew. However, those family members told other family members. The secret was contained to just that side of the family though.
This did not seem like my new normal height for 3-4 years.
I made it my business to never meet old acquaintences. From 2007 I sought to define myself to the world as a 5'10 guy, not a stretched out short guy. If anyone found out about LL I'd failed.
Why femur lengthening no longer an option mdow? Is it an age thing?
I could still physically do it. It's a private reason that has nothing to do with age or the surgery/recovery itself.
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I'm not an expert on LL; you may know more than me about certain technical details. I had the surgery in 2007 and can provide a recovered patient's insights and opinions from a long-term perspective.
if you could go back in time, would you still lengthen 3 inches?
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if you could go back in time, would you still lengthen 3 inches?
I would do only two.
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I would do only two.
So would you use a sentence or two to describe the benefits and costs of the three following height increase to your life?
1. Increase 3 inches
2. Increase 2 inches
3. Increase 1 inch.
Do you really think that the benefits of 2 inches would outweigh the costs? Why didn't you say 1.5 inches or not doing it at all?
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So would you use a sentence or two to describe the benefits and costs of the three following height increase to your life?
1. Increase 3 inches
2. Increase 2 inches
3. Increase 1 inch.
Do you really think that the benefits of 2 inches would outweigh the costs? Why didn't you say 1.5 inches or not doing it at all?
Every inch matters and is progressively tougher on the body, not in a linear way. Hard to know exactly how much tougher though. I don't bother thinking in half inches or lower increments because there's not much difference between one number and the next with intervals that small.
I think 5'10 is certainly better than 5'9. Even a 5'9 guy might be seen as short in some situations involving taller people wearing thicker shoes than he is. Still better than 5'8; that's a huge mental jump to 5'9 in my opinion even though it's the same distance apart.
I think two inches would outweigh the costs. I thought of doing 2" even back then but went for 3" because a lot of other people were doing that much or in some cases even more, and the price was the same. 8-9 cm was a range of lengthening several foreign Beijing patients were doing. And the domestic Chinese patients' lengthening ranges varied even more than that. Some only wanted 4 cm, one girl wanted 14 cm. :o They got charged by length and didn't have package deals offered to them.
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I read your novel and it was the most extreme approach at privacy I had ever read: which was to change your name after surgery. Did you actually do that? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable.
What are some important steps you think one should take to protect his privacy apart from the obvious stuff like not telling people you are getting this done?
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Do you think that lengthening both segments (i.e. both tibia's and femurs) with smaller increments, instead of just one segment with a large increment is wiser?
As an example: if you wanted to lengthen 7.5 cm would it be better to lengthen tibia's by 3.5 cm and femurs by 4 cm rather than going for the full 7.5 cm on one of them?
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I read your novel and it was the most extreme approach at privacy I had ever read: which was to change your name after surgery. Did you actually do that? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable.
Then I won't. ;D It's entirely up to you what you do. It wouldn't make a difference if I did it or not.
What are some important steps you think one should take to protect his privacy apart from the obvious stuff like not telling people you are getting this done?
Get it done while you're still young enough that people will believe that you grew. I got my 5'7 driver's license when i was 18. When it expired I went back to the DMV to get a new one and there was no issue at all with the different height.
Get scar revision and then tattoos over the scars so nobody will find out you had surgery.
Do you think that lengthening both segments (i.e. both tibia's and femurs) with smaller increments, instead of just one segment with a large increment is wiser?
Probably, but you're adding multiple additional major surgeries to spread out the length, so it's definitely not a black and white issue.
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Did you find your dating, romantic and career prospects changed significantly after the surgery?
If you could gain 6 inches and be reborn as the same man, only taller and more confident, would you do it if it meant leaving behind your old friends and an ex?
I appreciate you taking the time to comment in the thread I made with my ex.
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Did you find your dating, romantic and career prospects changed significantly after the surgery?
Definitely, women look at me as a potential partner instead of, to quote The Great Oudoors, a rack of yard tools at Sears.
Not so much in terms of career prospects though. Height only makes a difference in some professions.
If you could gain 6 inches and be reborn as the same man, only taller and more confident, would you do it if it meant leaving behind your old friends and an ex?
Already did that for 3.
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What are the biggest cons to doing precise 2 tibias up to 6 cm with Parihar?
Aside from possible knee pain from internal tibia
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What are the biggest cons to doing precise 2 tibias up to 6 cm with Parihar?
Aside from possible knee pain from internal tibia
I have no experience with the device or doctor. ???
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Dear Sir,
Have you participated in any kinds of sports or activities for hours since the surgery in 2007? Legs feeling ok to do any prolonged activities that required hours to complete?
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Dear Sir,
Have you participated in any kinds of sports or activities for hours since the surgery in 2007? Legs feeling ok to do any prolonged activities that required hours to complete?
I can play a full basketball game.
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I can play a full basketball game.
Wow, that's cool. Can you dunk with ease?
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Every inch matters and is progressively tougher on the body, not in a linear way. Hard to know exactly how much tougher though. I don't bother thinking in half inches or lower increments because there's not much difference between one number and the next with intervals that small.
I think 5'10 is certainly better than 5'9. Even a 5'9 guy might be seen as short in some situations involving taller people wearing thicker shoes than he is. Still better than 5'8; that's a huge mental jump to 5'9 in my opinion even though it's the same distance apart.
I think two inches would outweigh the costs. I thought of doing 2" even back then but went for 3" because a lot of other people were doing that much or in some cases even more, and the price was the same. 8-9 cm was a range of lengthening several foreign Beijing patients were doing. And the domestic Chinese patients' lengthening ranges varied even more than that. Some only wanted 4 cm, one girl wanted 14 cm. :o They got charged by length and didn't have package deals offered to them.
You said "I think 5'10 is certainly better than 5'9." But you also said that you'd "do 2 inches" (5'9) instead of 3 (5'10) if you can go back in a time machine. You were 5'7 before surgery, correct? If yes, then is the "better" life quality from 5'9 to 5'10 not strong enough for the negative effect of that additional inch? How would you know for sure that you wouldn't get the negative effect had you chosenn to do 2 inches instead of 3?
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Wow, that's cool. Can you dunk with ease?
Dude he's like 5'10 now and had LL
Most 5'10 dudes who never had LL can't dunk, let alone one who had LL.
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You said "I think 5'10 is certainly better than 5'9." But you also said that you'd "do 2 inches" (5'9) instead of 3 (5'10) if you can go back in a time machine. You were 5'7 before surgery, correct? If yes, then is the "better" life quality from 5'9 to 5'10 not strong enough for the negative effect of that additional inch? How would you know for sure that you wouldn't get the negative effect had you chosenn to do 2 inches instead of 3?
Yeah, I think that extra inch on the tibias only probably wasn't worth it. The issues I have are biomechanical. My tibialis anterior muscles have to work so hard when I walk that walking is pretty tough workout (for those muscles only). After several months of rehabilitation they couldn't grow anymore; they had reached their limit but they still needed to be bigger to do what they needed to do. This caused a condition called exertional compartment syndrome, which is when too much blood goes into a muscle when you use it, and pressure builds up inside. To fix this, a fasciotomy was performed, which is cutting a small slit in the fascia of the muscle so blood can drain out of it. The skin on top of that area now has very few hairs on it for some reason. The muscle feels a little bit unnaturally soft and springy when I press on it with my fingers, kind of like a water balloon. This is because it's got blood draining out of it interstitially in that area. Normally a muscle is hard and resistant when you press on it because you're reducing its volume without changing the amount of tissue contained within the fascia, which raises the pressure. And it feels even harder and more resistant when you flex it because you're raising its internal pressure further by doing so. You can't raise the pressure on something if it has a pressure release valve, which is what my tibialis anterior muscles now have.
Another issue I've noticed is that when I lie on my side with my knees bent I have to be careful where I put my feet because it's easier with long tibias to get your foot to go higher than your knee, which when lying on your side can put sideways force on the knee joint. Thinking about the physics of this, a naturally taller person could easily have this issue as well, but the longer femurs they have give them a little more range of tibia positioning possibilities.
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Why femur lengthening no longer an option mdow? Is it an age thing?
Never mind. I just decided I'm definitely getting internal femur LL.
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Never mind. I just decided I'm definitely getting internal femur LL.
Wait are you serious?
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Never mind. I just decided I'm definitely getting internal femur LL.
Beast
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Wait are you serious?
Yes. I'm moving to northern Europe and don't want to go back to being short again.
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Yes. I'm moving to northern Europe and don't want to go back to being short again.
What technique (precice?) and also how many cm are you aiming for?
What is your current height and the avg height in the country you are moving to?
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I'm currently 178 cm, will lengthen at least 5 cm so I can get to 6', maybe more if I decide that it'll be proportionally acceptable.
I'll use Stryde if it's back by the time I get it done, otherwise Precise.
No comment on the country. :-X
Guess I'd better get back to work on that novel so my 2nd LL can be written about concurrently.
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What are the pros and cons of leaving in internal nails for years? I get scared when I read diaries of people who had bad complications after a nail removal surgery
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Never mind. I just decided I'm definitely getting internal femur LL.
Why would you do that? 5'10 is really pretty good height already. At worst at tall places u will be slightly shorter but still, u will be way taller than girls and still be regarded as a man.
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Never mind. I just decided I'm definitely getting internal femur LL.
who's your preferred doctor?
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Why would you do that? 5'10 is really pretty good height already. At worst at tall places u will be slightly shorter but still, u will be way taller than girls and still be regarded as a man.
I was 2" below the American average when I did my first LL. Moving somewhere where 6' is the average puts me right back there. :(
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who's your preferred doctor?
Mahboubian is close to me so there's no contest.
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"What are the pros and cons of leaving in internal nails for years? I get scared when I read diaries of people who had bad complications after a nail removal surgery "
I put that comment here but it might be better in a separate thread in case people who did internals want to chime in. I don't want to make a thread if you feel it would be redundant though
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In your opinion do you approve 6 cm lengthning or you limit it to 5 what about 5.5 no one can tell what is safe other than some one who did it
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I don't like arbitrary raw number limits. Starting bone length, flexibility, body type, and other genetic differences will determine your limit. Some people should not even do 5, some can handle more than 6.
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MDOW, what are your thoughts on Gastrocnemius recession? Did you get any type of release when you lengthened tibias?
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I don't know anything about it specifically, but in general if you need to get cut, I think you're probably overdoing it. I didn't have any releases done. Just a fasciotomy on the tibialis anterior muscles about a year after my internal nail removal (which was about 13 months after frame removal) to treat exertional compartment syndrome.
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How long did you have pain and discomfort? I quit at 1.5inches bc of the pain and am satisfied but I would say I had pain for 5 months after lengthening. I am older than most. I am guessing that was a reason for the slow recovery.
How do people get 3 inches and look proportional? A lot of the docs could give a rat's behind about their patients, just bring the money. This is very clear after surgery.
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How long did you have pain and discomfort? I quit at 1.5inches bc of the pain and am satisfied but I would say I had pain for 5 months after lengthening. I am older than most. I am guessing that was a reason for the slow recovery.
Most of the pain and discomfort went away after I got my frames taken off. I think the second half of my 3" was easier because by then I knew exactly what I could and couldn't do; there were no more surprises. I just took it easy and didn't worry about getting any exercise except for standing hamstring stretches. I figured I'd be fine as long as I could almost straigthen my knees, and I was. The admin of the old forum used to preach "time is your friend" and I took that to heart. I was in no rush to walk normally again and that spared me from a lot of pain.
Congratulations on the 1.5 inches as an older patient; it's a good gain. When I first saw the 1.5 I thought you might have been the guy at the hospital with me who quit after 1.5 cm because of the pain. And he was young!
How do people get 3 inches and look proportional? A lot of the docs could give a rat's behind about their patients, just bring the money. This is very clear after surgery.
They do it by starting out with disproportionally short legs. A long torso is helpful, but the location of your waist isn't always apparent depending on what you wear. It's even better if you have long arms and especially a long neck, which I did. I looked pretty goofy before LL. I'd have been less interested in LL if I'd been well-proportioned. I guess that's an example of a problem becoming beneficial under different circumstances.
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Thanks for being around answering question. Means a'lot to the community where we all suffer from the same issue but got different motives here clearly. First thing i want to ask you is:
1. I'snt the safe limit for tibias 2 inches? if so what was your doctors opinion when you decided to go 3? like what was his advice he gave you on whether you should aim for it or less, left it up to you?
2. You went from being 5'7 and got to 5'10 which is a great accomplishment. You're now saying that you want to get femurs done because your'e moving to a country with a larger average height, do you really believe that'll make a difference? There's a reason why short people do this, ppl 5'9 and up dont really do this becuase yes they would prefer to be taller but ultimately height doesnt bother them so do you really believe after you achieved a really good height that no one in their right mind would complain about that youll really be happier taller? Also what is your wingspan if you dont mind me asking?
3. Would you keep this second surgery more private since last time your family let it get out to one side of the family?
4. Looking back how you handled keeping things private would there have been a better way to keep it private, anything you regret taht you didnt do or did, handle anything different than you did basically?
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1. I'snt the safe limit for tibias 2 inches? if so what was your doctors opinion when you decided to go 3? like what was his advice he gave you on whether you should aim for it or less, left it up to you?
What's safe varies from person to person. Dr. Xia recommended a maximum of 8 cm for me. Dr. Mitkovic also said 7-8 cm would be fine for me. This was probably a little too much for me but some people needed Achilles tendon releases if they went past 5 cm, which I did not.
2. You went from being 5'7 and got to 5'10 which is a great accomplishment. You're now saying that you want to get femurs done because your'e moving to a country with a larger average height, do you really believe that'll make a difference?
Yes, I do. I never want to be below average height again. It makes that much of a difference in life that I'd do LL again just to stay average.
There's a reason why short people do this, ppl 5'9 and up dont really do this becuase yes they would prefer to be taller but ultimately height doesnt bother them so do you really believe after you achieved a really good height that no one in their right mind would complain about that youll really be happier taller?
In person and on this forum I've met 5'9 people doing LL, and they weren't even planning to move to northern Europe either.
Also what is your wingspan if you dont mind me asking?
5'10.
3. Would you keep this second surgery more private since last time your family let it get out to one side of the family?
Yes, it will be 100% private from everyone I currently know.
4. Looking back how you handled keeping things private would there have been a better way to keep it private, anything you regret taht you didnt do or did, handle anything different than you did basically?
Given my living situation at the time, which was the best I could do at the time, there's nothing I could've done differently except ask the people I had to tell about LL to keep it a secret from everyone else. I assumed that would go without saying but they didn't see it that way.
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are you willing to show some photos of your pinsite scars?thank you :)
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Thanks for your feedback MDOF. I just think avergae height is a relative thing. Its not universal but tbh if your wingspan is 5'10 and you got 3 inches in your femurs you are probably a good candidate for femur lengthening i would think. Do you miss any of the ppl you cut off from your life that saw you at 5'7? I was kinda avoiding ppl near my height til i get cll done so they are less suspicious. Been wearing lifts so when they see me their used to seeing me taller. Think its working good but i juts have to avoid situations that in barefoot which is annoying af.
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are you willing to show some photos of your pinsite scars?thank you :)
https://imgur.com/a/bKjuJyt
I had scar excisions in 2009 and this is what the results look like now.
The tiny pictures in the bottom right are of another Beijing patient's scars without any scar revision treatments.
Those scratches on the door are from my wheelchair from 2008. I really should paint my house. ;D
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https://imgur.com/a/bKjuJyt
I had scar excisions in 2009 and this is what the results look like now.
The tiny pictures in the bottom right are of another Beijing patient's scars without any scar revision treatments.
Those scratches on the door are from my wheelchair from 2008. I really should paint my house. ;D
Why are the scars so long? Are they your compartment release scars?
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wow. It looks very well. I think people will not know you've done such a big surgery by looking at your legs.
I am the one who really care the pinsite scars. In many people's cases, the pinsite scars seems like very noticeable. This makes me very hesitate. (Lon/Precice)
If my scar excision can go like yours, I 100% chose Lon tibia
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Why are the scars so long? Are they your compartment release scars?
I lengthened 7.5 cm, and to excise a scar the doctor has to cut past past each end. You can see a compartment release scar in the top left picture on my left leg, to the (your) right of the flash reflection but not in any of the other pictures. In the bottom left picture the flash is reflecting off the compartment release scar so it shows as just a white gleam.
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Do you miss any of the ppl you cut off from your life that saw you at 5'7?
No. I wasn't close with any of them.
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No. I wasn't close with any of them.
So many conflicting posts on this forum about the difference in life but reading your replies, it seems like going from 5'7 to 5'10 was a massive change (hence why you want to do LL again). I'm 5'6 looking to go 5'9. So from short to average. I currently wear 3in lifts around all the time, it's getting tiring. I agree with you, I want to do this surgery because I think I will look much more well proportioned. I have a feeling like you, I'll want to also do tibia to get 5'11 cause why not. I'm 22. Planning to get both surgeries before 25. I have the money and work environment, just need to find the right doctor and nail.
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So many conflicting posts on this forum about the difference in life but reading your replies, it seems like going from 5'7 to 5'10 was a massive change (hence why you want to do LL again). I'm 5'6 looking to go 5'9. So from short to average.
Average is good enough. No average person should do this to their body. My jump from 5'9 to 5'10 during that final month of LL was all about my being greedy, wanting that 32" inseam so I could wear men's pants off the rack. As you can see from this thread I was 100% not doing another LL until the move to a very tall country was decided upon. Not wanting to be short again and not wanting more LL were the biggest reasons against the move, but I decided the move had to happen regardless.
I currently wear 3in lifts around all the time, it's getting tiring. I agree with you, I want to do this surgery because I think I will look much more well proportioned. I have a feeling like you, I'll want to also do tibia to get 5'11 cause why not. I'm 22. Planning to get both surgeries before 25. I have the money and work environment, just need to find the right doctor and nail.
Then people who know you will be used to your being 3" taller, and getting to 5'11 would make them suspicious. Another reason not to do it. :)
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During the 3 months of lengthening, during that time with all of your living expenses, medical expenses, etc
1. What are the most common things (aside from doctor choice) people skimp out on and should probably pay more for?
2. What are some common things people pay too much on and should probably go for cheaper options?
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I don't know. Mine was an all-inclusive package.
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你手术结束后还来过中国吗？
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你手术结束后还来过中国吗？
不懂.
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In all your time in the LL community what are the longest lengthenings you've seen in cosmetic patients?
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I knew a guy who did 20 cm in a year (10 and 10 back to back). He was my roomate for a while in Beijing. When I went back for my nail removal some current patients said he was still there when they first got there.
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I am a very inflexible person.
Athletic but extremely inflexible
Regular muscular gym physique at 5'8. You were saying that those with poor flexibility will have a lower threshold for safeness than 5cm?
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I don't know about safeness, but you'll have more pain.
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I don't know about safeness, but you'll have more pain.
Interesting
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https://imgur.com/a/bKjuJyt
I had scar excisions in 2009 and this is what the results look like now.
The tiny pictures in the bottom right are of another Beijing patient's scars without any scar revision treatments.
Those scratches on the door are from my wheelchair from 2008. I really should paint my house. ;D
Wow scars are almost invisible unless closer inspection..what method of scar excision did you have and how much did it cost?
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Excisions. A few thousand dollars; I forgot exactly how much. It was done by a top Beverly Hills plastic surgeon for top dollar. Could be done cheaper elsewhere, of course.
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Given you went to Beijing for your first Tibia surgery and going to Dr. M in USA for your second LL, would you consider going to Turkey for Femur Precice LL?
I just received my quote and its roughly $77K for Femur Precice LL.
I am considering Turkey (Dr. Halil Buldu Or Dr. Serkan Gurkan) Because it's roughly $40k for the surgery and pay for full accommodation for $2-3k per month. (Includes housing, food, different types of physiotherapy, and company of other LL patients)
Thanks for your post. very insightful.
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I have enough money to get it done locally now so I'm not considering going anywhere else. Cheap surgery abroad is for young guys.
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Given you went to Beijing for your first Tibia surgery and going to Dr. M in USA for your second LL, would you consider going to Turkey for Femur Precice LL?
I just received my quote and its roughly $77K for Femur Precice LL.
I am considering Turkey (Dr. Halil Buldu Or Dr. Serkan Gurkan) Because it's roughly $40k for the surgery and pay for full accommodation for $2-3k per month. (Includes housing, food, different types of physiotherapy, and company of other LL patients)
Thanks for your post. very insightful.
A turkish surgeon quotet you 77k for bilateral precice femur surgery?
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I have enough money to get it done locally now so I'm not considering going anywhere else. Cheap surgery abroad is for young guys.
I was thinking from a full accommodation perspective. In Turkey, I'd be in a hotel with dedicated staff to help physiotherapy, cook meals, clean, etc.
$40-$45k for the surgery and $2-3K in full accommodation for 3+ months. <$50k All-in for the next 3-5months.
A turkish surgeon quotet you 77k for bilateral precice femur surgery?
Apologies for not being clear. I received the $77k quote for bilateral precise femur from Dr. M in Burbank, CA, USA. screenshot of the price details. This only includes surgery, hospital fees, anesthesia, and X-Rays every 2 weeks for 90 days.
This does not include physical therapy, accommodation, and nail removal. I believe PT and nail removal would be covered by Insurance.
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Hey mediumdrinkofwater! I hope you are well?
I wanted to ask you something about LON TIbia lengthening, because I have been lengthening for 15 days now at a rate of 1mm per day, so I should have gained 1.5cm however my X-ray showed 2cm, is that correct? Also there is about 1mm difference in my legs
Just wanted to know if this is common
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Hey MDOW, you mentioned 'nail bending' in my post about height shrinkage after LL.
I wanna know more details about it.
Do you know the possibilties of nail bending and how to avoid it?
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Pin bending. That's when the horizontal pins on externals bend when they can't keep up with the tension from lengthening and standing. They'll always bend in the direction of the ends being higher than the middle because that's the direction weight bearing and pulling the gap apart pulls the device.
It is unavoidable with devices that are succeptable to it. You need to measure the gap with x-rays rather than keeping track of how many turns you've made on the knobs to know how much you've lengthened.
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Pin bending. That's when the horizontal pins on externals bend when they can't keep up with the tension from lengthening and standing. They'll always bend in the direction of the ends being higher than the middle because that's the direction weight bearing and pulling the gap apart pulls the device.
It is unavoidable with devices that are succeptable to it. You need to measure the gap with x-rays rather than keeping track of how many turns you've made on the knobs to know how much you've lengthened.
On external? But what I'm talking about is Paley's option five，And it uses internal methods. So i don't think height hrinkage will also happen after ll of option five
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Yes. If you have no pins, they won't bend.
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Yes. If you have no pins, they won't bend.
Good. Internal nails are just as awesome as my dk
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If you keep the internal rod in you for years, what bad things could happen? The thread about the guy having a complication from the nail removal surgery- this scared me alot
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If you keep the internal rod in you for years, what bad things could happen? The thread about the guy having a complication from the nail removal surgery- this scared me alot
I'm not sure; it's probably not that bad. Some doctors recommend leaving them in permanently rather than going through the risk of another major surgery just to take them out.
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I'm not sure; it's probably not that bad. Some doctors recommend leaving them in permanently rather than going through the risk of another major surgery just to take them out.
Maybe nails' going rusty can cause some problems?
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What are the most common complications that happen towards the end of lengthening for internal nails (like gnail) and what kind of doctor do you go to for them? Dr. Giotikas says can go home after 6 weeks, just trying to be prepared for a worst case scenario if I do this
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What are the most common complications that happen towards the end of lengthening for internal nails (like gnail) and what kind of doctor do you go to for them? Dr. Giotikas says can go home after 6 weeks, just trying to be prepared for a worst case scenario if I do this
I don't know.
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For the flight back right after lengthening, in the airplane, if I don't want to have to lift my overhead carry on to the top bin (afraid of hurting myself), what are my options? What is your advice?
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Ask a flight attendant to do it for you.
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What are the most common things people forget to do beforehand or forget to bring before flying to do leg lengthening? I'm feeling a bit nervous, I scheduled to do the surgery in the fall and have never left the USA before
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I really only know about my own experiences. Try finding out what they don't have in the country you're going to and stocking up.
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How old were you when you did it?
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Mid 20s.
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a. For internal g-nail with Dr. Giotikas for tibias, how long do you need to stay in Athens?
b. For precise 2.2 with Dr. Parihar for tibias, how long do you need to stay in Mumbai?
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I have no idea.
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I was misinformed by someone or else.
I heard of stuffs that P nails will come back in 2023 or never come back.
So maybe it's just talking about the availability of P nails in Dr.G's that he said P nails will come back in 2023 or never come back?
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I don't know. It has nothing to do with me.
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I don't know. It has nothing to do with me.
Hey man, when are you going to do your second LL for femur with Dr. Mahboubian?
I take it that you are over 40 now?
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That was for a move to Finland which isn't going to happen after all. I'm probably never getting another LL.
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That was for a move to Finland which isn't going to happen after all. I'm probably never getting another LL.
Damn, so you were planning to do a second LL just because you were moving to Finland.
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Dr. Giotikas says to plan for plus or minus two weeks for dates in case of complications.
For the return flight back to the USA (ex: to D.C. most likely), what strategy would you use to account for this?
It seems like there are a few strategies:
1. Only book a 1 way to Athens and then decide later
2. Book a round trip and try to get the second part refunded if I need to change the date (Which airlines allow this?)
3. Book a round trip but pay for some kind of flight insurance with the airline company
I'm trying to figure out a good strategy given that gas prices will go up so plane ticket prices go up
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I know very little about airlines and travel insurance.
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If you had to redo the LL again the same way, would you do 5cm or 5.5cm or 6cm?
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Say you were mid 20’s again in 2022, who would you choose to operate on you if you had a similar budget to the past. AKA can’t choose Paley, Betz, or other US doctors
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Hi, can you summarise how was your "physiotherapy" or exercise routine after surgery as advised by the surgeon? Mostly normal walking on crutches? Fixed bike? Both? Professional physiotherapist specific movements? Same in lenghtening as in consolidation phases? Thanks!
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If you had to redo the LL again the same way, would you do 5cm or 5.5cm or 6cm?
I'd probably just stick to 5.
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Say you were mid 20’s again in 2022, who would you choose to operate on you if you had a similar budget to the past. AKA can’t choose Paley, Betz, or other US doctors
Probably Giotikas. If not him, Parihar.
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Hi, can you summarise how was your "physiotherapy" or exercise routine after surgery as advised by the surgeon? Mostly normal walking on crutches? Fixed bike? Both? Professional physiotherapist specific movements? Same in lenghtening as in consolidation phases? Thanks!
The gym at the hospital had wooden wedges for patients to stand on, a leg extension machine, and a treadmill. Few people went there though. Lying in bed and lifting your whole leg was recommended. Everyone used walkers, so using them was encouraged, as was standing in place. Also, they provided sandbags to put on your knees.
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I'd probably just stick to 5.
If your starting height were 5'6", how much would you do?
Probably Giotikas. If not him, Parihar.
Wouldn't the death case bother you though? If you were to do external tibia lengthening and money wasn't an issue, which surgeon would you go to?
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The gym at the hospital had wooden wedges for patients to stand on, a leg extension machine, and a treadmill. Few people went there though. Lying in bed and lifting your whole leg was recommended. Everyone used walkers, so using them was encouraged, as was standing in place. Also, they provided sandbags to put on your knees.
Thanks! As English is not my native language could you include a link to any picture of what an wooden edge in this case is? Also, how long did you try to do active exercise or at least walk or stand, daily?
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If your starting height were 5'6", how much would you do?
I think 5 cm is a good number.
Wouldn't the death case bother you though? If you were to do external tibia lengthening and money wasn't an issue, which surgeon would you go to?
No. I don't know anything about the death case since I haven't been researching doctors lately, but patient deaths from surgery happen. As long as it wasn't due to his negligence I wouldn't think he's a bad surgeon because of it.
Paley. He's the best.
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I think 5 cm is a good number.
But at 172cm, you're still rather shortish while at 173-174cm you're closer to average.
No. I don't know anything about the death case since I haven't been researching doctors lately, but patient deaths from surgery happen. As long as it wasn't due to his negligence I wouldn't think he's a bad surgeon because of it.
Well the thing is we can't know for sure if it's his negligence or not. But if a surgeon already has one death in a very short career of 4 years and another like Paley has 0 death in 3 decades of career, there is probably something there.
Paley. He's the best.
But Paley doesn't do external CLL and also don't you think he is a bit old by now?
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Do u know the rate of Americans who are part-working to pay the total fees when studying as graduates?
I am willing to migrate over America to study abroads and my family can't afford the total fees so I must part-work there to pay the fees.
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But at 172cm, you're still rather shortish while at 173-174cm you're closer to average.
Well the thing is we can't know for sure if it's his negligence or not. But if a surgeon already has one death in a very short career of 4 years and another like Paley has 0 death in 3 decades of career, there is probably something there.
But Paley doesn't do external CLL and also don't you think he is a bit old by now?
Starting shorter means you should lengthen less though.
One is not a pattern so don't read too much into that.
Paley won't do externals anymore even if you ask for them? I'm doubting that. He's probably still good at his present age.
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Do u know the rate of Americans who are part-working to pay the total fees when studying as graduates?
I am willing to migrate over America to study abroads and my family can't afford the total fees so I must part-work there to pay the fees.
I don't know but it's different for international students anyway. I don't believe there are any Work+Study visas. You'd only be allowed to work at the university.
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Paley won't do externals anymore even if you ask for them? I'm doubting that. He's probably still good at his present age.
I've talked to him many times and I conclude that he is anti external lengthening for cosmetic. Well, I do think that if I insist hard enough, I should be able to convince him to do it but that would mean that he wouldn't do it whole-heartedly.
but patient deaths from surgery happen.
Btw, your previous statement makes me think, were you really prepared to die for your surgery back then?
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Hi MDWater,
I’m currently doing Precice Tibias and has lengthened 5.7cm. Atm knees are kind of tight but I can still fully extend them with a bit of force. I have slight ballerina with heels about 3cm off the ground but after 3-5?minutes of standing they go down and touch the ground. I want to gain 7cm given my conditions are good with no pain and I can walk well with a walker.
My questions are:
1. Back then when you lengthened yours past 6cm did you feel pain or see signs of over-extending which may lead to repercussions? Or were the potential complications unforseeable?
2. I understand you wished you had only done 6 instead of 8 due to the exertional compartment syndrome you experienced later on, but as you mentioned most people who did tibias in China during that time went well past 6 on tibias. Do you know the percentage of good recovery rate among them? Or do most regret going past 6?
Thanks for your answers. I have a strong desire to get to 7 but am wondering if it’s worth the risk.
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I've talked to him many times and I conclude that he is anti external lengthening for cosmetic. Well, I do think that if I insist hard enough, I should be able to convince him to do it but that would mean that he wouldn't do it whole-heartedly.
I don't think that's an issue. He's done them thousands of times, and he knows how to do them well. Whether he recommends them or not for cosmetic purposes won't affect his performance in the operating room.
Btw, your previous statement makes me think, were you really prepared to die for your surgery back then?
I knew it was a risk and I went anyway.
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Hi MDWater,
I’m currently doing Precice Tibias and has lengthened 5.7cm. Atm knees are kind of tight but I can still fully extend them with a bit of force. I have slight ballerina with heels about 3cm off the ground but after 3-5?minutes of standing they go down and touch the ground. I want to gain 7cm given my conditions are good with no pain and I can walk well with a walker.
My questions are:
1. Back then when you lengthened yours past 6cm did you feel pain or see signs of over-extending which may lead to repercussions? Or were the potential complications unforseeable?
No new/special problems occurred after going past 5, 6, or even 7. Totally unforseeable, yes.
2. I understand you wished you had only done 6 instead of 8 due to the exertional compartment syndrome you experienced later on, but as you mentioned most people who did tibias in China during that time went well past 6 on tibias. Do you know the percentage of good recovery rate among them? Or do most regret going past 6?
Thanks for your answers. I have a strong desire to get to 7 but am wondering if it’s worth the risk.
I still keep in touch with one other person (a female) who started out a few inches shorter than me, lengthened just a little more than me, and didn't get compartment syndrome. I had duck feet my whole life (like my father and all his siblings) which was fixed by rotating everything below the osteotomy site during the frame removal surgery. A different orthopedic surgeon (who doesn't do LL) examined me afterward and told me I had flat feet, but I don't know if I had them before LL or not and there's no way of finding that out now, obviously. I don't know if either of these issues had anything to do with the compartment syndrome or not.
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No new/special problems occurred after going past 5, 6, or even 7. Totally unforseeable, yes.
I still keep in touch with one other person (a female) who started out a few inches shorter than me, lengthened just a little more than me, and didn't get compartment syndrome. I had duck feet my whole life (like my father and all his siblings) which was fixed by rotating everything below the osteotomy site during the frame removal surgery. A different orthopedic surgeon (who doesn't do LL) examined me afterward and told me I had flat feet, but I don't know if I had them before LL or not and there's no way of finding that out now, obviously. I don't know if either of these issues had anything to do with the compartment syndrome or not.
About the duck feet, I have had a bit of this. Do you know if it's possible to fix it with internal Precice nails? Or is it only possible with externals?
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It could be fixed since it involves the surgeon twisting the leg by hand, below the osteotomy site, during surgery. The device doesn't do anything for duck feet. For an internal it would have to be done during the insertion surgery.
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I don't think that's an issue. He's done them thousands of times, and he knows how to do them well. Whether he recommends them or not for cosmetic purposes won't affect his performance in the operating room.
I'd say that it might affect his performance.
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For tibias, how do LON scars vs LATN scars vs Precise 2 scars compare?
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For tibias, how do LON scars vs LATN scars vs Precise 2 scars compare?
LON and LATN will have the same scars. Precise scars I don't know about, but probably the same internal nail-related scars as they hybrid approach without any pinsite scars.
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Hey medium drink of water. After your surgery what would you say was the most important stretches you did?
Thanks
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Standing pike with my forearms on the seat of an adjustible-height chair.
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Hey MDW,
I see that you recommend 5cm for tibia
What are your thoughts on patients doing 6 or 7+ tibia in places in turkey? Do you think they will be able to recover 100% pre-surgery athletic level?
I think people should stick to 5 cm regardless of where it's done. You most likely won't recover to 100% no matter how little you lengthen. LL is a big deal.
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Can you play sports?
Can you run/jump and for how long or how many times?
People are very unclear with Long term effects of LL. Some tell me your max atlethicism is limited and some say you will never run again.
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Can you play sports?
Yes.
Can you run/jump and for how long or how many times?
I don't know. I haven't tested my limits in that way and it doesn't sound like much fun.
People are very unclear with Long term effects of LL. Some tell me your max atlethicism is limited
These people are right. I'm one of them. It's an issue of biomechanics: longer legs are harder to move than small ones.
There's one member here, Sweden, who was a professional athlete, had LL, and then went back to competing at the professional level. If he'd trained just as hard without having LL, how much better could he be right now? It's impossible to say, but it's reasonable to assume he'd be at least a little more agile.
and some say you will never run again.
These are people who don't know anything about LL, unless they're talking about people who had botched surgeries.
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yeah I mean. im not an athlete by any means and definitely don't plan to ever compete. just want to be as a normal person even if it requires training
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I walked a lot, sometimes for 2+ hours at a time, after lengthening to get my legs back to normal. Now I don't need any special training to stay normal.
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I love to run and generally to work out , go for walk for a long distance...but not as professional athlete.
It is really to be flexible enough for that after making 6 cm on femur?
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I haven’t done cll but from all the info I’ve gathered I don’t see how that would remotely be an issue at your height and with that lower level of lengthening. I’m 5’5 so my max LL height is your current height. Is it really that bad to be 5’10. Before I got into Cll community I thought that 5’6 and above was pretty normal heights (I wear shoes that make me an inch taller, well really two inches but it’s relative to everyone else wearing shoes, and I don’t really feel weird in public). I was planning to stop at 5’8 but it just seems that 5’8 isn’t even enough. I pray I grow taller in college so I can reach 5’10 through one surgery.
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Would you be able to share the name of the plastic surgeon you went to for scar revision?
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Would you be able to share the name of the plastic surgeon you went to for scar revision?
No, but any of them can do it perfectly well. Cutting the skin and minimizing scars is something they're all extremely good at or they wouldn't have passed the board exams for plastic surgery. You're better off finding the cheapest doc you can find instead of paying top dollar and then some in Bevery Hills like I did.
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I remember you wrote the hospital you went for was like an asylum? What did that encapsulate after all?
Tbh, how long did you take to restore your trait?
Thanks.
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I meant that most people there had mental health problems. I could say the same about this forum. Being short leads to unhappiness, and unhappiness leads to mental issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by trait.
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I meant that most people there had mental health problems. I could say the same about this forum. Being short leads to unhappiness, and unhappiness leads to mental issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by trait.
Sorry that was just a typo.
I mean 'gait.
Yeah that is a cruel fact.
When I feel deep down I tend to cope myself with dwafisms. they are living way more ty lives than usand can't grow to normal heights forever.
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The pictures of your scars look good. Do they look that good in real life?
I'm deciding between external and internal tibias and the thing holding me back for externals are the scars
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Here's a rough timeline:
June 2007: frame installation surgery. Could only use a walker or wheelchair.
November 2007: frame removal surgery, no instant change in mobility
February 2008: crutches
April 2008: slow walking (about half speed maximum) without crutches
November 2008: my current gait, normal walking, able to run with reasonalbe confidence despite internal nail
December 2008: nail removal surgery, full confidence in running
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The pictures of your scars look good. Do they look that good in real life?
I'm deciding between external and internal tibias and the thing holding me back for externals are the scars
Those pictures are true-to-life.
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how much cm do you recommend doing in the femurs? I had thought 6-7, but if I can do more I will try more, do you think it's good?
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Here's a rough timeline:
June 2007: frame installation surgery. Could only use a walker or wheelchair.
November 2007: frame removal surgery, no instant change in mobility
February 2008: crutches
April 2008: slow walking (about half speed maximum) without crutches
November 2008: my current gait, normal walking, able to run with reasonalbe confidence despite internal nail
December 2008: nail removal surgery, full confidence in running
It seems to me, that your recovery was prompt and good! I always thought external methods wouldn't permit patients to restore fundamental kinetic abilities previously.
By the way you did LL when I was 7 LOL
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how much cm do you recommend doing in the femurs? I had thought 6-7, but if I can do more I will try more, do you think it's good?
Do the minimum needed for you to be content with your height.
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What do you think about Android who did cross lengthening? Should he have skipped external on femur?
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Yeah, should've skipped that. External femur is just a nasty experience. :'(
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It seems to me, that your recovery was prompt and good! I always thought external methods wouldn't permit patients to restore fundamental kinetic abilities previously.
By the way you did LL when I was 7 LOL
Yeah, things went all right. If you work hard during lengthening you could probably recover at a faster rate than I did.
There was a 14 year old girl patient there. Chinese. I don't know why she was there; probably not CLL. Hard to believe she's already almost 30. :o
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Yeah, things went all right. If you work hard during lengthening you could probably recover at a faster rate than I did.
There was a 14 year old girl patient there. Chinese. I don't know why she was there; probably not CLL. Hard to believe she's already almost 30. :o
I think you mean a 30 year old girl as tall as 14 year old?
Some patients there were also maybe fixing bone discrepancies, I guess.
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You said you would want to do 2 inches instead of 3. A while after you wished for the 2nd surgery. Did that change your mind about wishing for 2 inches instead of 3 in the first surgery also?
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You said you would want to do 2 inches instead of 3. A while after you wished for the 2nd surgery. Did that change your mind about wishing for 2 inches instead of 3 in the first surgery also?
No, those were unrelated.
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Hey when the external fixator came off how was the pain for the first week? Can you still walk or did you need crutches?
Thank you
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Oh! also when you had your frames removed and your legs could come closer to each other did your height slightly increase?
Thank you
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Hey when the external fixator came off how was the pain for the first week? Can you still walk or did you need crutches?
Thank you
It was such a relief to get those things off. Pain was minimal. The doctors didn't want us to stand for a week after the second surgery, so I can't speak to that. They always did it two weeks before patients were scheduled to leave.
I could barely even use a walker the first time I stood. I almost fell backwards. One guy who did 5 cm disobeyed doctor's orders and was walking almost immediately after his 2nd surgery. I don't know what, if any, consequences he suffered for doing so because we hated each other and weren't on speaking terms at that point.
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Oh! also when you had your frames removed and your legs could come closer to each other did your height slightly increase?
Thank you
I would imagine yes, since putting the feet together makes the top of your head higher than when they're spread apart.
I didn't measure my height during the process. The frames made it impossible to put my legs up against the wall anyway. I only went by the measurements done on the x-rays to know how much I grew.
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I think you mean a 30 year old girl as tall as 14 year old?
Some patients there were also maybe fixing bone discrepancies, I guess.
No, I mean there was a 14 year old patient at the hospital (not doing CLL obviously). She was the baby of the group. Now she's 30. Time sure flies.
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Hey Medium,
I underwent Tibia LON 5 weeks ago. For personal reasons, I had to stop lengthening. Overall I gained only around 0.9cm (0.6cm from lengthening and 0.3cm from gap left by surgeon). The second surgery to remove the external frames was 3 weeks ago.
Currently I am walking around with a walker. Doing 1 hour of walking a day and doing daily physio excercises.
I currently have pain in my knees when I walk and when I lift and move my legs when I’m laying down. Also I have pain in calves when walking and moving legs around.
Is all this normal considering I’m only 5 weeks from initial surgery?
Also, I am terrified of the possibility of having chronic knee pain. What are the chances you think that I get it? Also, how bad is the chronic knee pain? Is it constant or only when you do hard excercises?
When do you think I should be able to walk without any assistance and when will I feel back to normal again?
What advice would you have for me?
Thanks a lot!
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Yes, that is normal for almost everyone at this point.
I don't know the chances of getting it. Check my stickied post called My Knee Issues in the Information section to read up more about it.
I'm not sure how long it will take you to walk without assistance.
My condition improved once I got the frames off, then more when doctors removed the intenal nail. Then it stopped improving and I have slight issues to this day. So the only advice I have is to wait and hope.
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Yes, that is normal for almost everyone at this point.
I don't know the chances of getting it. Check my stickied post called My Knee Issues in the Information section to read up more about it.
I'm not sure how long it will take you to walk without assistance.
My condition improved once I got the frames off, then more when doctors removed the intenal nail. Then it stopped improving and I have slight issues to this day. So the only advice I have is to wait and hope.
Could you please describe the ‘slight issues’ you feel today? Is it constant and always painful or easily bearable? Or do you only feel it when you do certain movements?
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Easily bearable and I usually only notice it when I kneel on a hard surface.
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Easily bearable and I usually only notice it when I kneel on a hard surface.
Ahh, I’m so glad to hear that. Sounds like it’s not a big deal then.
Lastly, based on others you may have spoken to, to what degree is their knee pain? Is it similar to yours or worse?
I just want to get a rough idea of what the typical ‘chronic knee pain’ after LON Tibia is like. Is it similar to yours or usually much worse? What’s been your consensus on this?
Thanks again buddy
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I have the worst knee issues of anyone I know, except for people whose surgeries were botched.
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I have the worst knee issues of anyone I know, except for people whose surgeries were botched.
I guess that’s… good news then? If you said your issues are easily manageable and it’s the worst from what you know, I guess everyone else’s knees are pretty much normal then?
Could you please take a look at my X-rays and let me know what you think?
These are 1 week old. Thanks a lot man, you are honestly really giving me peace of mind.
What do you think of them in terms of nail position, screws etc.
https://pasteboard.co/AC1Mnmoz0cYQ.jpg
https://pasteboard.co/dGEupDtqyXpZ.jpg
As I said, at the moment I’m in pain when I stand up, sit down, walk and raise my leg. My knees hurt.
Thank you again Medium
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I don't notice anything wrong with them. They look pretty similar to my x-rays. The first few weeks after surgery, it felt like the internal nail was sticking way up into the knee and would burst out if I bent my leg.
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I don't notice anything wrong with them. They look pretty similar to my x-rays. The first few weeks after surgery, it felt like the internal nail was sticking way up into the knee and would burst out if I bent my leg.
Fingers crossed, I hope I end up healing well without any knee issues. Hopefully the pain I have in knees atm goes away soon.
And same! I feel the same way! It feels like the internal rod is sticking out for me, but I am able to bend my knees fully.
I know it’s difficult to say, but what do you think Medium. Do you reckon I’ll end up getting chronic knee pain or not?
And when should the current knee pain that I have, go away?
Thanks again!
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This issue is barely even acknowledged by the orthopedic community, and even outright denied by some doctors. So all I know is anecdotal to my own case. Your body might or might not heal differently than mine. I can't make a prediction.
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This issue is barely even acknowledged by the orthopedic community, and even outright denied by some doctors. So all I know is anecdotal to my own case. Your body might or might not heal differently than mine. I can't make a prediction.
Thanks medium.
Last thing, how many weeks after the first surgery should I stop feeling pain in the knees? Currently I’m only 5 weeks post first surgery…I understand it’s this very early so it’s normal to be experience this knee pain. But how many more weeks after should it go away…and if it doesn’t…then it’s a cause for concern..
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Your frames are already off but you're still healing from surgical trauma from the 1st surgery and the 2nd simultaneously. Your experience is very different from mine so I really couldn't say. For what it's worth, my knees gradually improved over the four months I was lengthening, so I think some of what you're experiencing is from surgical trauma.
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Your frames are already off but you're still healing from surgical trauma from the 1st surgery and the 2nd simultaneously. Your experience is very different from mine so I really couldn't say. For what it's worth, my knees gradually improved over the four months I was lengthening, so I think some of what you're experiencing is from surgical trauma.
I hope so. Btw my Dr used a transpatellar approach for the insertion of the tibia nail.
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Hey medium
Quick question.
The people that suffer from permanent chronic knee pain … how bad is it usually for them?
Usually for the guys that done tibia LON
Do they have a constant pain whilst doing things like walking, standing up, sitting down, laying down?
Or do they experience it when they kneel on hard surfaces, do squats, etc. basically during certain movements that we don’t normally do all the time
I guess what I’m asking is that is the pain really that bad that is constantly there or is it not as bad?
Thank you brother
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It's not a constant pain. I believe what I have is tendonitis. The symptoms match.
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It's not a constant pain. I believe what I have is tendonitis. The symptoms match.
Thank you.
I guess what I’m asking is, do you think it’s highly unlikely that I will develop chronic knee pain where I feel pain when I do basic things like walk, sit, stand, lay down etc.
I just don’t want the basics to hurt.
I’ve never been into sports so I won’t be putting extra pressure on it. I only really do upper body workouts.
What do you think?
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Hey Man
Appreciate what you’re doing in this forum.
I am about to have the surgery in couple days and not sure if i am going to pull the trigger and do it.
Since you had your surgery in 07, did it make you happy? Did it solve your height insecurity if you had one?
Any word of advice from you would be very appreciated.
Thanks
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It's not a constant pain. I believe what I have is tendonitis. The symptoms match.
Thank you.
I guess what I’m asking is, do you think it’s highly unlikely that I will develop chronic knee pain where I feel pain when I do basic things like walk, sit, stand, lay down etc.
I just don’t want the basics to hurt.
I’ve never been into sports so I won’t be putting extra pressure on it. I only really do upper body workouts.
What do you think?
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Hey Man
Appreciate what you’re doing in this forum.
I am about to have the surgery in couple days and not sure if i am going to pull the trigger and do it.
Since you had your surgery in 07, did it make you happy? Did it solve your height insecurity if you had one?
Any word of advice from you would be very appreciated.
Thanks
Yeah, it made me happier and solved my height insecurity.
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Thank you.
I guess what I’m asking is, do you think it’s highly unlikely that I will develop chronic knee pain where I feel pain when I do basic things like walk, sit, stand, lay down etc.
I just don’t want the basics to hurt.
I’ve never been into sports so I won’t be putting extra pressure on it. I only really do upper body workouts.
What do you think?
The basics you mentioned don't hurt me.
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The basics you mentioned don't hurt me.
Thanks medium. Do those basics hurt most LON tibia patients? Based on stories you’ve heard and patients you’ve spoken to and your research.
Thanks again
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I haven't heard of anyone having problems like that.
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How long after frame removal were you allowed to start lifting weights again? I’ve gotta take an X-ray after 4 weeks
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I don't remember.
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Here's a rough timeline:
June 2007: frame installation surgery. Could only use a walker or wheelchair.
November 2007: frame removal surgery, no instant change in mobility
February 2008: crutches
April 2008: slow walking (about half speed maximum) without crutches
November 2008: my current gait, normal walking, able to run with reasonalbe confidence despite internal nail
December 2008: nail removal surgery, full confidence in running
Hey
I’m currently going through lizarov/Lon combine technique for tibia - think the technique is a lot similar to what you had done. Just interested as to why it took so long to go from frame removal in November 2007 to using crutches in February 2008. Were you still using wheelchair or Walker for four month after frame removal. And was this the recommendation of your doctor or a case of your body just not being ready to use crutches.
Thanks
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I used a wheelchair mostly at first, then moved on to the walker except for long distances, then it was walker only for a while until switching to crutches. It was all my decision. I was having difficulty balancing. It took a while for my legs to get strong enough that I was confident I wouldn't fall.
I switched to crutches an unknown number of weeks sooner, but I clearly remember using the crutches in early February 2008.
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Have you come across patients who’ve had LL with Italian doctor Dr Daniele Pili. His preferred LL method is the Lumiere device on tibia with no rod inserted. This procedure is different to external Lon tibia in one major way as there is no rod inserted so the patient has to keep device on after lengthening until full bone consolidation. But he allows patients to lengthen tibia close to 10 cm. Most of his patients typically lengthen tibias to 9+ cm with no complaints or complications during or after lengthening/recovery.
I’ve been wondering if the insertion of a rod makes a difference in the lengthening limitations. And if so why. Would you know this based on your research or what you have heard.
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I don't think it makes a difference. Some LON patients have done 10+ cm of lengthening, including many in Beijing with me.
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I think you may have mentioned the other patients with you in the centre who lengthened more than your 7.5 cm. As far as you are aware did the people who did 8+ cm recover as well as you in terms of final recovery and also amount of time it took to to recover compared to time it took you. By recovery I mostly mean walking with a normal gait again
Thanks for always coming back to answer queries here btw
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I don't know.
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How many mm were you lengthening per day. And did you lengthened the same rate from start to finish.
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It varied significantly. Their recommended rate was .66 per day, which I started out doing. When it became clear that my consolidation was much faster than their average patient, I started doing 1 or even 1.33 per day. There were short periods (a few days maybe) when I didn't lengthen at all. Sometimes the muscles just need to rest and catch up.
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what was your tibia&femur length? 3inch on tibia is a lot.
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hello, mdof
there was a discussion in the group of a non cosmetic condition, which required all four bones(femurs and tibiae) needing implants. any idea what it is?
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Thank you for staying here to help everyone :). I have the opportunity to go to Dr. Lee for surgery and lon is 40% cheaper than precise and I'm torn between the two procedures. Do you think precise(femur) has a big advantage over lon (tibia)? (I'm almost worried about permanent knee pain,health and sequelae problem)
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what was your tibia&femur length? 3inch on tibia is a lot.
I don't know and never knew.
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hello, mdof
there was a discussion in the group of a non cosmetic condition, which required all four bones(femurs and tibiae) needing implants. any idea what it is?
Never heard of it.
Thank you for staying here to help everyone :). I have the opportunity to go to Dr. Lee for surgery and lon is 40% cheaper than precise and I'm torn between the two procedures. Do you think precise(femur) has a big advantage over lon (tibia)? (I'm almost worried about permanent knee pain,health and sequelae problem)
Precise is probably better in terms of health and recovery.
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Thank you for your reply! I'm very hesitant now. Dr. Lee's Lon (planning to do tibia 5cm) and giotikas precise (femur 6cm) are almost the same price... My budget only allows me to choose one of the two. Dr. Lee seems to have more experience and better PT but percise is better to avoid complications. Do you have any advice please?
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I found PT to be unnecesary as a tibia LON patient. Some users who've done internal femurs say it's extremely important. So I guess Lee's PT isn't a reason to choose him if you're doing LON. In fact you're probably wasting money by going to him since you'll be paying for the PT, unless that's optional. Save even more by doing LON with Giotikas? Maybe.
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Thank you for your advice :)
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If you had a badget and you are younger wich doctor you well choose in Europe?g nail betz,,giotikas or precise,?what do you think about quadrilateral?in the same time?or to wait between the two surgeries?
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I'd choose Giotikas and Precise from those options in that situation.
I'd only do quadrilateral simultaneously if I was lengthening a small amount, like 8 or 9 cm combined. Otherwise I'd wait between surgeries.
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I'd choose Giotikas and Precise from those options in that situation.
I'd only do quadrilateral simultaneously if I was lengthening a small amount, like 8 or 9 cm combined. Otherwise I'd wait between surgeries.
Thank a lot man
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You are very helpful man and I don’t want to annoying ,my last question If you want to choose a surgeon from turkey (I am from turkey)which surgeon you will choose in turkey?
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I don't know much about the Turkish doctors.
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.
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I'd choose Giotikas and Precise from those options in that situation.
I'd only do quadrilateral simultaneously if I was lengthening a small amount, like 8 or 9 cm combined. Otherwise I'd wait between surgeries.
Do you think gnail is a risky option for healthy，young people?
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I think the nails have similar common risks. I don't think it matters a lot which one you choose. They're much more similar than they are different.
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My question is about your fasciotomy. How did you know you had compartment syndrome and what tests did you have? I have seen photos of fasciotomies where the wound is left open, was yours like that or stitched up when you work up?
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Those muscles got very easily/quickly fatigued when I walked.
A doctor stuck a little pressure gague into the muscle after I went walking in the hospital parking lot for a few minutes.
Mine was all stitched up. I think the only reason they don't stitch some of them up is because they can't on those. Mine were only an inch long.
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What is the difference between g-nail and betzbone?Thanks！
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I don't know much about those.
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When you did your cosmetic scar revision was it done all in one surgery for both legs?
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Half the scars on each leg were done per surgery.
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Half the scars on each leg were done per surgery.
So for example the left half of the left leg in the first surgery then the right half of the left leg in the second? Was this due to not putting tension on all the scars at once?
How long between surgeries?
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It was more spread out than doing one side and then the other of each leg. Yes, you don't want the wounds pulling on each other.
I think you can do them 3-6 months apart. I don't remember how long I waited.
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I have lengthening in January. We are the same starting height, im a tad over 5 foot 7.
Im debating if I do 2 inches and maybe can keep it a complete secret including from family members. Or do 3 inches and just have people find out.
Wondering on your perspective since you did 3 inches. Would 5 foot 9 have cured your height issues? Is 2 enough? Or is being 5'10 worth the extra time, effort, and having pretty much no chance of keeping it a secret. If everyone finds out in the end I might wish I just went for 5'10.
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I think 5'9 would have been OK, and if I had it to do over again I'd only do 2 inches. I was even considering that much in 2007, but what made me go for that extra inch was my 29" inseam. 32" is a commonly made size of pants so I went for it for the sake of fashion.
I'm not sure if 2 inches is below the threshold of being noticed. Maybe some distant cousins you don't see very often might not think anything weird is going on, but your mom/dad/siblings/bff will definitely notice you're suddenly 2 inches taller.
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Rather 2 inches because you didnt fully recover? Was hoping to get away with it because I had a recent spine surgery and could use that as an excuse.
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You'll never fully recover. It's all a matter of degree.
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You're giving me all the answers I dont want to hear lol. But I appreciate realistic feedback.
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If i lengthen 7.5cm Femurs, weight bearing nail, and get a proper ITB (not a soft ITB) release to begin with, how long realistically before i can walk with a gait nobody can detect is off? 90/95% normal gait? It might not be the smoothest, but nobody would say what is with his walk?
Time from surgery
And time after i stop lengthening
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I don't know much about internal femurs.
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Hey
When you had your surgery, did the surgeon use syndesmosis screw? If so, what was the positioning of it? Was the end on the fibula lower or higher than the end on the tibia? Or was it horizontal?
Thank you
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Don't know, don't remember.
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That’s fine. Do you still have any X-rays?
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No.
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Hey,what type of anesthesea do you use general or local and if youre using local are you given something that makes you sleep?cause im really scared of getting it under local anesthesea since most doctors dont offer general
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I got a combination of general and spinal. I was partially awake.
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what if you panicked and move a part of your body during surgery?sorry ive never been to a sugery before
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Mobility is severely limited by the drugs.
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Did you do this on your own? Had anyone with you during your time when u did the surgery?
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This was a full-service clinic so I had their staff 24/7.
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What are the main things I should know about doing tibias that are different than femurs?
I'm doing gnail femurs now
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Hey, I would also like to do this surgery because my proportions is so bad for me to become fashionable. Is it better to do femurs or tibias when you are wearing clothes ( I tend to wear looser and oversized fitted clothings)?
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Hi
I am planning to have tibia lengthening (LON method) but I have some concerns regarding lengthening of fibula bone. So is it necessary to fixate fibula at both lower and upper ends to the tibia? I saw a lot of doctors only fixate it at the lower end.
Is it going to create issues if it is not fixed to tibia at upper end?
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Hi MDOW
Since 2007 have you noticed a change in the type of people getting LL surgery? Particularly as it is being advertised far more now than 15 years ago.
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Hey, I would also like to do this surgery because my proportions is so bad for me to become fashionable. Is it better to do femurs or tibias when you are wearing clothes ( I tend to wear looser and oversized fitted clothings)?
A long loose shirt will cover up elongated femurs. But most fashionable stuff is tight rather than loose as far as I know.
Hi
I am planning to have tibia lengthening (LON method) but I have some concerns regarding lengthening of fibula bone. So is it necessary to fixate fibula at both lower and upper ends to the tibia? I saw a lot of doctors only fixate it at the lower end.
Is it going to create issues if it is not fixed to tibia at upper end?
I don't know.
Hi MDOW
Since 2007 have you noticed a change in the type of people getting LL surgery? Particularly as it is being advertised far more now than 15 years ago.
No. It still appeals to the same type of person. I don't think ads matter since that type of person seeks it out, and the ads are few and short-reaching. They just help doctors compete with each other for the same patients.
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Hi do they still offer this today?
I heard China has banned cosmetic limb lengthening.
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I don't know.
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was blood transfusion necessary for your case?
back in 2007 in China was it not risky to get blood transfusion ? Were you not worried about this??
sorry my question is not useful in today's time, so I have deleted it
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Thanks for help.Do you know Dr. Metin Kucukkaya?I've heard he's a good doctor (recommended by Dr. doonhoon lee), but why can't I find a diary or much info about him on this forum... What is your opinion about him? How would you choose between Giotikas and him?
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I don't know him. I have no opinion.
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Could you do martial arts if you wanted do?If you would go into fight how much is your athlecism affected by leg lengthening?
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I didn't do martial arts before so I wouldn't know. A poster here named Sweden did LL and then returned to competitive martial arts.
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You didi 3 inches in tibias, all people said thta 6 cm in tibias is enought.. how is it posible? You did lenght slower, I mean how many cm per day? With 3 inches you felt that your nerves or healt in general decrease?
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Im planing to do tibias too, with a betznail 6.5-7 cm.. Im afraid I have a tendonitis in my left legs (achilles tendon), you think I should do it less cm or just not doing it?.. I read you had a tendonitis with this surgery it that afects you in the long and term?
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I didn't lengthen slower. I couldn't, since I would have gotten premature consolidation if I had. The doctors told me to lengthen at different rates throughout the process depending on my bone growth.
I don't have any nerve problems, but the hair on the lateral sides of the lower half of my calves disappeared. I got external compartment syndrome in my tibialis anterior muscles which was treated with fasciotomy surgery due to the huge increase in demand placed on those muscles to move my longer legs. I think if I'd lengthened less I wouldn't have had that problem.
I don't have any experience with Achilles tendon issues. My tendonitis is in the knees, probably caused by the nail insertion and removal surgeries.
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I dont think some people appreciate their healthy body until something goes wrong. People take for granted just being able to wake up and exist peacefully and without pain or issues. I see this in young people especially because they've never had an injury that permanently changes the way they operate, while its common once you get over 30 to have something and you realize you're not invincible. Important to solve height related issues but also be reasonable.
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I didn't lengthen slower. I couldn't, since I would have gotten premature consolidation if I had. The doctors told me to lengthen at different rates throughout the process depending on my bone growth.
I don't have any nerve problems, but the hair on the lateral sides of the lower half of my calves disappeared. I got external compartment syndrome in my tibialis anterior muscles which was treated with fasciotomy surgery due to the huge increase in demand placed on those muscles to move my longer legs. I think if I'd lengthened less I wouldn't have had that problem.
I don't have any experience with Achilles tendon issues. My tendonitis is in the knees, probably caused by the nail insertion and removal surgeries.
Why did the hair on part of your legs disappear?
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I don't know. It's the skin that covers the muscles that got really big.
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deleted post, I already asked this question, accidental repeat question
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1. What objects do you notice that most LLers forget to bring/regret not bringing with them for LL?
2. What objects do you notice LLers bringing with them that they probably should not bring/not waste luggage space on?
I did gnail femurs. Offhand, I didn't use the massage gun nearly as much as I thought I would. And the hotel TV was way smaller than I originally thought and so I never used my HDMI cable or wireless keyboard for it. And I thought I would game more with my gaming keyboard but I didn't like the lag spikes I got in the hotel in Athens. So I just ended up using my laptop in bed mostly.
Trying to think of some other ideas to pack smarter/bring what really matters, any other ideas or observations from your personal experience?
One idea I had was to buy a like 28 inch 4k monitor after going to Athens from skroutz (similar to amazon for Greece) and then trashing it when I'm done, wonder if that's a bad idea
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I don't know. It depends on your situation.
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what was ur nail removal proceess like? did you got anesthesia? wont it hurt to pull pins from bone without anestheisa?
did you not concern abt risk of bone infection with LON method?
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In your memory on either forum, have you ever seen a situation where someone doing 5cm precise tibias instead of like 4.5 cm precise tibias made a difference in terms of complications/a worse outcome?
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Firstly, thanks for being active and responding to questions all these years later!
~My question is how much has LL changed your life?
~To what degree did your height neurosis get alleviated?
~Do you feel like a new man after the surgery versus before?
~Do people really treat you better, and how has it impacted your romantic life since finishing lengthening?
~How has your mental state changed since before and after getting the surgery done?
~Do you feel like you could have improved your life without CLL and that you could overcome being short or are you 100% happy having spent the money on surgery?
Thank you in advance for responding, I am a 5'4.5" and 23. I have achieved a lot and went to a good college, but my sense of self worth is still zero. I'm curious how satisfied CLL patients are because on most websites anytime anyone mentions leg lengthening, people are quick and overwhelmingly likely to say how bad this surgery looks and that it is pointless and too expensive.
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1. My live changed a lot but I don't know how much of that was due to LL.
2. I don't have height neurosis anymore. I tried to do bodybuilding before LL and now I just don't care. All I do now is light cardio, body weight calisthenics, and yoga. I don't feel the need to compensate for a shortcoming that doesn't exist anymore.
3. I turned over a new leaf in terms of my interaction with the world. I have a lot more confidence now that people don't literally (and by extension metaphorically) look down on me anymore. I feel less afraid going out in public, like the target on my back marking me as an easy victim was erased by LL.
4. Everyone treats me much better. I went back to college after LL, and a girl in one of my classes actually had a crush on me. That hadn't happened since the 4th grade. It wasn't only due to height: my behavior in the class made me come off as intelligent, funny, and outgoing. I was really comfortable in the classroom like never before. But she was above average in height, so I have some doubts that she would've felt that way if I hadn't done LL. Men treat me better too. There's a scene in a documentary movie called Short & Male of an experiement in which a short guy gets bumped and pushed around on a crowded sidewalk, and a tall guy walks the same path and people move out of his way. There is just a general, omnipresent, in many cases unconscious, background physical intimidation and bullying against small men in society.
5. My mental state improved a lot. Less fear and discouragement, more hope and optimism.
6. As of right now I don't have anything going for me that I wouldn't have without LL. The benefits seem fleeting and geared towards the young. You're probably too young to remember this but there was a comedy show called Married With Children (the other mod is a big fan) about a guy named Al Bundy who used to be a popular star athlete in high school, got all the girls, bought himself a sweet car with the money from a part-time job selling shoes at the mall, and ovedrall had a great youth. Now he's a miserable middle-aged shoe salesman who doesn't like his wife and is still driving that same car.
My biggest concern now is my mobility in the future. In many ways LL is like buying something wonderful with a high-interest credit card.
P.S. Please use the default font. That one is a little hard on the eyes.
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Married with Children and Al Bundy, classics!!! Love the references, analogy and answers.
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Have you told the women you have dated about your LL and if so what was their reaction to it?
I'm curious to know if women who want children would feel disappointed when they find out the man they are with has had LL since her children won't get his height.
It seems like something that should be brought up early on at least in an indirect way.
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I never tell anyone about LL.
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Have you told the women you have dated about your LL and if so what was their reaction to it?
I'm curious to know if women who want children would feel disappointed when they find out the man they are with has had LL since her children won't get his height.
It seems like something that should be brought up early on at least in an indirect way.
LOL!!! How exactly would one discuss having had a LL in an indirect way!?!? That conversation would get real and direct, real fast.... Seriously though you're deluding yourself if you think a woman would be like hey by the way, I had a giant crooked nose which my parents paid to get a nose job when I was younger, just wanted to be sure you didn't expect to have attractive kids with me.... People never disclose everything, be it sexual history or plastic surgery or whatever. She's not going to confess to having had a "hoe phase" or give her real body count. Do what you feel is right of course but realize men and women are not so honest that you "should" disclose LL anymore than people should disclose others things they generally do not.
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You dont owe them an explanation. They like what they see, so you date you. You dont see people disclosing all their past surgeries with people they date right, so why do you have to? These are the same kind of women who wouldnt give you the time of their day if you were shorter, so screw it.
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LOL!!! How exactly would one discuss having had a LL in an indirect way!?!?
I would not bring up LL but would try to bring up the topic of height in normal conversation and gauge their attitude towards it. Unforutunately for me my scars are still quite bad almost 10 years later so if they asked about them I'd have to lie and say I had bowed leg correction or something which I don't really want to do.
I never tell anyone about LL.
Have you had romantic partners ask about your scars and if so what'd you tell them?
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LOL!!! How exactly would one discuss having had a LL in an indirect way!?!? That conversation would get real and direct, real fast.... Seriously though you're deluding yourself if you think a woman would be like hey by the way, I had a giant crooked nose which my parents paid to get a nose job when I was younger, just wanted to be sure you didn't expect to have attractive kids with me.... People never disclose everything, be it sxxual history or plastic surgery or whatever. She's not going to confess to having had a "hoe phase" or give her real body count. Do what you feel is right of course but realize men and women are not so honest that you "should" disclose LL anymore than people should disclose others things they generally do not.
Exactly. Women get a million things done and hide it. I dont see why the double standard. I dont plan on saying a single thing about my LL if my scar condition lets me get away with it.
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Did you ever posted a photo of before and after scar surgery removal? it would be interesting to see the change
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Nope. No before pictures were taken.
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Have you told the women you have dated about your LL and if so what was their reaction to it?
I'm curious to know if women who want children would feel disappointed when they find out the man they are with has had LL since her children won't get his height.
It seems like something that should be brought up early on at least in an indirect way.
No post-LL patient will tell women that they are dating they have done LL. Very few peole in general know about LL in addition.
As for scars, just tell her you have injury for once. Srsly no women know about LL as much as we do.
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I forget was this the best scar strategy?:
1. Big thick /raised scars -> pay surgeon (not sure what kind? plastic surgeon? burn specialist surgeon? Forgot already) to have the snipped out / sewed up -> silicone sheet / scar gel -> laser X times until it looks like not much
2. Small scars -> (if after the surgery, silicone sheet/scar gel) -> laser X times
3. If anything from above can't be fully hidden by this -> skin colored tattoo on top of the result
4. If anything still can't be concealed -> actual tattoo, maybe linework on the scars directly (though there are some pro and con arguments tattoo line work, some users don't like too much line work and I somewhat agree)
Are there better strategies? Do I have some false information above?
I think that HeightJourney had some silicone tape + scar gel recommendations from the doctors in Baltimore on his youtube channel?
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A plastic surgeon and a burn specialist are very similar. The general field is called plastic/reconstructive surgery. I've found that surgeons who specalize in treating burns are generally more willing and able to help with severe scarring regardless of the cause.
Once a scar has been cut out and sewn up properly, doing anything else is usually a waste of money.
Scars will usually fade on their own over time. Laser treatments are expensive and I think they just speed up the process and don't provide a better end result.
Scar sheets do almost nothing even when they stay on. Often they'll just get peeled off by your clothes.
Scar gel/cream is snake oil. Don't buy it.
I have no experience with skin color tattoos. But I think they probably won't conceal the scars very well when viewed from close-up.
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Scar sheets do almost nothing even when they stay on. Often they'll just get peeled off by your clothes.
Yeah hm.. I wonder why HeightJourney said he thought they helped to keep the scars flat (I might be misquoting his youtube vid). Maybe I'll PM him or ask him in his diary
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Any update on this? Have you gone through with it?
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Hi I’m searching for some info about lon and latn on tibias for 6cm there are too many contradictory opinions on this forum about these two methods since you are an active member and u have done lon tibias i was wondering why u chose lon and not latn and if u have any information about the permanent knee pain caused by lon would there be no knee pain issues by latn ?
Thanks in advance!
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Hi!
15 years after your surgery, do u have knees pain, arthritis, randomly numbness/soreness in your legs? I read some diaries in the forum, but only knew their statuses 1-3 years after the surgeries. Really want to know how about 10 years, 20 years……I don’t want to regret my decision in the rest of my life😫
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Hi I’m searching for some info about lon and latn on tibias for 6cm there are too many contradictory opinions on this forum about these two methods since you are an active member and you have done lon tibias i was wondering why you chose lon and not latn and if you have any information about the permanent knee pain caused by lon would there be no knee pain issues by latn ?
Thanks in advance!
LON was standard procedure for the doctor I went to. I could've asked for LATN and gotten it but there wasn't a reason to. The results from LATN are almost identical.
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Hi!
15 years after your surgery, do you have knees pain, arthritis, randomly numbness/soreness in your legs? I read some diaries in the forum, but only knew their statuses 1-3 years after the surgeries. Really want to know how about 10 years, 20 years……I don’t want to regret my decision in the rest of my life😫
Minor sensitivity/tendonitis in the patellar tendon. No numbness but maybe a slight loss of sensation directly over the new bone. No other issues to report.
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Can you elaborate on the part where you said it's like buying something with a high-interest credit card?
Would you do it again if you had the chance to do so?
Do you feel that your body is going to feel worse going forward? Worse than if you just hadn't got that surgery?