Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Rivers on September 26, 2013, 11:26:59 PM
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There are so many patients of Dr. Betz that develop major complications with the Betzbone! Now we know Apotheosis is invested in Dr. Betz and the Betzbone.
Almost every single patient of Dr. Betz that I have ever met has broken or bent their nail or screws. Almost every single patient!!
Dr. Betz advertises his nail as weight bearing but I don't believe it for one second. He has used that as an advertising scam to make people think they will be mobile from the very beginning of lengthening and tells them to walk as much as possible. When they walk as Dr. Betz tells them to they always break/bend their nails/screws and then require more surgery to fix the problem. Oldiebutgoldie diary is the perfect example. Andrewshizzles had titanium nail replacement and hid it from the entire community until someone noticed the difference in the x-rays and called him out on it. Apotheosis completely broke his tibia nail almost a full year after his tibia surgery.
When you add up the cost of further surgery to fix the nail/screws or replace them altogether with the titanium nails it ends up costing way more than even the most expensive Dr. Paley. It's a money making scam over there at the Betz Institute!
Update: Dr Betz's respond in this post
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=24.msg6077#msg6077
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How many patients of Dr. Betz have you met personally that can attest to this being a problem? Do you have a link/remember the page where someone pointed out the difference in Andrewshizzles nail replacement? I'm interested in delving deeper into this, especially since Dr. Betz has been on old forum 's recommended list since the beginning of the site.
Dr. Betz and Dr. Guichet seem to have something of a rivalry, which may explain why Guichet hasn't had a diary since the time Apotheosis bought old forum . It's funny, on the very first page of Apotheosis's internal tibias diary, he writes that Dr. Guichet told him "Would you rather do them (your tibias) now with Dr. Betz, or would you rather do them right?".
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Do you have a link/remember the page where someone pointed out the difference in Andrewshizzles nail replacement?
Here is the link- Page 15 of "Topic: Andrewshizzles - Internal Femurs - Dr Betz - 2011 - Blitzkrieg For 9 CM"
Look at the first and 5th post on the page.
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One of the reasons i considered Betz was because Apotheosis was able to work while he did his LL.
Now that we know Apo is advertising Betz I am starting to think that his working while LLing is a scam.
Maybe by work he meant sitting on his lazy ass and scamming LL hopefuls on old forum .
I really like how there r some smart guys out there. Sometimes I think to myself that " come on… it can’t be that bad" but then when u continue to see things that don’t tie in then u r left confused and really bothered.
Thanks for picking up why we don’t see many Guichet diaries.
I don’t blame Apo for promoting his business but he is doing it the dodgy way.
He is really doing his best to ensure that we don’t hear about other internal nails.
I have also just realized that Jamal's patients seem not to be updating their diaries ha aha ha ahaha haha. Surely the guy does more cosmestic LLthan the 1 diaries we see crop up from him once a year!
Now that he wants or already has business with Dr Donghoon (or Lee) we start hearing about him and a detailed diary also pops up and it turns out that the guy has something like 12 patients currently doing femur LL with precise.
I have learnt that in LIFE there is no smoke without fire.
not long ago all diaries where either Dr Sarin's or Betz. once in a while he would add a different doctors diary lol.
Why, becuase he has/had business with these 2 doctors.
Now that he has business with Dr Siringari, there has been 3 or more diaries (some of them FAKE) from that doctor.
Why, because he has business with them.
I can assure u that he is trying to do business with Donghoon so early next year there will be many many diarries from the Dr.
He said he would even build a guest house for that doctor to bring prices down. Why ..out of his own good will!!!.....f*&%k that crap.
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Building a guesthouse out of the goodness of his own heart is complete crap! He's such a fraud and liar!
I disagree about Apotheosis doing business with Donghoon . The reason why is Donghoon already does surgery with the PRECICE and he is developing that new nail X-Tend so he has no need for Apotheosis and the Betzbone. Plus Korea is a rich country obsessed with technology where people can afford the high price-high tech PRECICE instead of the old tech-lower price leg ratcheting of the Betzbone.
On the other hand you have doctors in India like Sringari who need the Betzbone to attract patients who want that low price internal nail option. I'm sure there's other doctors in India that Apotheosis is trying to make money from by geting them the Betzbone so they can offer internal lengthening for cheap.
Maybe he'll even through in building a guest house to seal the deal :P
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I know we are mad at sysop and we some pretty drastic reasons to be pissed off. However, lets just stick with finding his real name and where he is. This way he can be held accountable by patients who are physically disfigured by doctors he had on his stupid 'endorsed list' and those who he made a commission off of.
But as for the actual doctors themselves, lets separate that. What if this 'Betz nail' is actually a good thing? We dont know. Let not write it off as a credit to us as patient just because sysop makes a cut off it.
If we can independently prove its good, we can tell Dr Betz it had nothing to do with sys and not to give him a cut from our patients.
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Hey guys,
I'm joining this website from the old forum. I've been a member there for quite a while, and to avoid giving out who I am, I have chosen a different nickname here. I intend to follow old forum as well, and have no intention of getting banned there - hence the privacy.
I can guarantee 100% that the information here is correct, but please don't ask in detail. SysOP is indeed trying to sell the Betzbone to other doctors. That's all I can say. He didn't deny that he made an investment, so I'm okay with it so far.. However, I was troubled by the fact that the "Complications with Dr. Betz" thread was deleted. I don't exactly remember who opened it, but a few members realized that the thread was gone. Some patients, such as TibandFemur and OldieButGoldie, have had their nails or screws bent or broken. As of today, I have lost confidence in the Betz clinic. There are many diaries from Germany, true, and I trust German people in general. I however feel that Betz is sugarcoating LL a bit. Some other doctors, such as Guichet and Paley, have a more "no-nonsense" approach. I feel safer with an attitude like that, so I've changed my course.
My suggestion for this website's admins would be this: Copy old forum 's diaries and save them. If, for some reason, old forum is shut down, we can keep them here as backup.
Open new sections. We need 2013 updates from every doctor. Let's prepare questions and tell the doctors that we have a new website, and demand updated information.
Another website (Imtallernow) was opened when old forum A shut down the old forum before handing it over to SysOP, but that forum didn't survive. If we want this forum to survive, we need to keep it very organized.
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Look at all the diaries from Dr. Betz on old forum . Basically everyone of them just end and you never hear from the patient again. The only post surgery video from Dr. Betz is Andrewshizzles and he tried to lie and hide the fact he had titanium nail replacement. I've heard so many people tell me that when they visited Dr. Betz they saw people with horrible complications that never get reported on old forum .
People who don't walk correctly even two years after surgery. People with permanent contractrues and nerve damage. Tons and tons of bent/broken nails and screws. Dr. Betz allows anyone and everyone to lengthen as much as they want and tells them to weight bear before they should. This leads to horrible problems for the patient.
I don't trust Dr. Betz and the Betzbone!
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I definitely agree with ChrisIsaak. Any good information in old forum should be saved and be made public here in case if anything happens to old forum . Aside from all of that Sysopotheosis fiasco, old forum still carry more information pertaining to LL than any other place.
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Oh definitely.
I say whatever diaries we can get we take and put up here.
I also think the rules and the 'dos and dont's are also worth duplicating as it cuts down on the questions.
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Building a guesthouse out of the goodness of his own heart is complete crap! He's such a fraud and liar!
I disagree about Apotheosis doing business with Donghoon . The reason why is Donghoon already does surgery with the PRECICE and he is developing that new nail X-Tend so he has no need for Apotheosis and the Betzbone. Plus Korea is a rich country obsessed with technology where people can afford the high price-high tech PRECICE instead of the old tech-lower price leg ratcheting of the Betzbone.
On the other hand you have doctors in India like Sringari who need the Betzbone to attract patients who want that low price internal nail option. I'm sure there's other doctors in India that Apotheosis is trying to make money from by geting them the Betzbone so they can offer internal lengthening for cheap.
Maybe he'll even through in building a guest house to seal the deal :P
check out out this:
- Sarin builds or moves patients to a new guest house
- Sarin and Apotheosis/Syop have a fall out
- Dr Sarin is removed from old forum in all kinds of form
- there is a new diary from a new LL Dr in India
- This new Dr sends his LL patients to a guest house
- staff at Dr Siringaris guest house have some connection with Dr Sarin
- these ex-staff of Dr Sarin start trash talking Dr Sarin
- Dr Siringari's guest house has the same equipment (gym), wall pantings, colours, etc AS DR SARINS OLD GUEST HOUSE!
a haaha ha a this so interesting.....WE r being fooled....this guys is a classic...He is a business and if u think his advice is honest then u have a lot of growing up to do.
This guy invests in LL Dr purely for his gain. I like that he is tryng to bring internal nails to india. I am also OK with him making money in the process. Lets face it there is no such thing as a free lunch.
What i hate about his processes is that he discredtis other LL Drs to promote the ones that he is in business with. The Dr Sarin, Dr Siringari, Phantom's Fake diary show his true colours.....
He is doing everything he can to ensure the HLN does not succeed. (at 35K and not making any cut from the profit his LL business will be over and he would have to go back to his old desk job he ehe h ehe eheeh )
I mentioned a day ago that he is limiting other internal LLpatients diaries with other doctors to a mimum level. the next day i saw that he had openned a new diary for a Jamal patient haaah a ha aha aha aha......
By the way, OldButGoldie, only kengthenned 5 cm and his equioment gave in!!! all the while ppl r being told they can do 10cm with betz and that the mechanism will still be wait bearing....a load of crap.
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Syop/Apotheosis gave the his guest house (Dr Sarins old guest house) to Dr Siringari.
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He is doing everything he can to ensure the HLN does not succeed. (at 35K and not making any cut from the profit his LL business will be over and he would have to go back to his old desk job he ehe h ehe eheeh )
By the way, OldButGoldie, only kengthenned 5 cm and his equioment gave in!!! all the while ppl r being told they can do 10cm with betz and that the mechanism will still be wait bearing....a load of crap.
Ah see, now I have realized that the Betz nail is actually not as good as they claimed. And we really can start building a database of RELIABLE and HONEST doctors here who are NOT using the Betz nail. Everyone should have a safe limb lengthening surgery as top priority, if they can do that without the Betz nail, even better.
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Hey .
This is why I was so mad to the point of foaming at the mouth. I have since decided to simply find out his name and make sure the clients who go to old forum are aware he is a salseman, not some objective facilitator of a website. They need to know if they go through the 'approved doctor list' , Sysop may get a commission and that needs to be disclosed right up front.
I am no socialist. I believe in the free market. What made me so mad was he was pretending to be a non profit non biased guru here to help . We arent talking about buying a used car here. We are talking about busting our legs for christs sakes. If he steers us to a quack, we may never walk again.
And that to me, makes what he is doing very serious.
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I have contact with one of Dr Betz patient, here's the feedback on the Betz nails.
" The 13mm nail is much more safe. I agree the 11mm nails frequently break and bend and there should be a better 11mm nail available. There is certainly no issue with the 13mm nail from what I have seen. "
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I have contact with one of Dr Betz patient, here's the feedback on the Betz nails.
" The 13mm nail is much more safe. I agree the 11mm nails frequently break and bend and there should be a better 11mm nail available. There is certainly no issue with the 13mm nail from what I have seen. "
This quote is very misleading! Very few people have the bone canal to naturally support the full 13mm nail. The only way Dr. Betz can make enough room for the 13mm nail is to ream the inside of your bone far more than is recommended for someone whose bone canal should have the 11mm nail.
There are plenty of patients who have had the 13mm and still bent or broke the nails and screws. Dr. Betz simply has his patients weight bear too early and often regardless of the diameter of the nail that is used for lengthening. There are so many examples within the Dr. Betz diaries (both hidden and out in the open) and countless more when you visit Dr. Betz in Germany and talk with his patients.
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I should mention this extra reaming of the bone by Dr. Betz to implant the 13mm for patients who request/beg for the larger diameter nail when they should have the 11mm nail is very dangerous. This is why the PRECICE 2 is producing a 8.5mm nail to support people whose bone canal is too small for even the 10.5mm nail they currently offer. It's not as simple as just reaming more bone canal to make room for the larger diameter nail. Reaming the bone canal more than it should drastically increases the risk to the patient during surgery, during lengthening and during recovery.
This is why people should consult with a number of doctors before proceeding with surgery with Dr. Betz. It is well known among other LL surgeons that Dr. Betz cuts corners and puts patients at risk far more than is reported on any lengthening forum.
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This quote is very misleading! Very few people have the bone canal to naturally support the full 13mm nail. The only way Dr. Betz can make enough room for the 13mm nail is to ream the inside of your bone far more than is recommended for someone whose bone canal should have the 11mm nail.
There are plenty of patients who have had the 13mm and still bent or broke the nails and screws. Dr. Betz simply has his patients weight bear too early and often regardless of the diameter of the nail that is used for lengthening. There are so many examples within the Dr. Betz diaries (both hidden and out in the open) and countless more when you visit Dr. Betz in Germany and talk with his patients.
Interesting, if you combine that with the information in "Creepy: old forum stillyoung's disappearance" thread, it starts to paint a clearer picture about the Betz nail.
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Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.
Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.
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Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.
Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.
This is madness three separate surgeries? That's madness in anybody's book.
He always seems to discourage AL too when people suggest it.
Man alive the guy has spent a lot on getting bigger!
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Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.
Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.
Holy...seriously?
Sysop is a clear example of someone with extreme body dysmorphic disorder. I mean we all have it to some degree since we're on a forum for LLing, but this is going way overboard. He's already completely disregarded safety in how much he's allegedly lengthened already.
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Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.
Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.
Hi Mime and welcome ! :D
Is 'Anderson' his first name or last name? If you have any further information regarding him pls PM me or 'Dameon' . We plan to expose him for illegal steering of innocent patients while pretending to be an objective administrator of the other site.
As for Betz, do you know of any patients who would be willing to come here and tell us what happened? Let me know :)
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Hello everybody. I'm new to this forum and quite happy there is no censorship like on old forum . By the way, if anybody still doesn't know: Apotheosis and Sysop are the same person. His name is Anderson and he is currently trying to lengthen his arms with Dr. Betz and having a lot of complications. Rumors are that Betz does the armlengthening for free to him, due to their business relationship.
As for the Betzbone nail, there exist several versions but none is as good as the Albizzia used to be. Since around 2011 Betz has no longer access to the Albizzia and is therefore using his patients as guinea pigs for his own developed nails.
The % of complications with Betz for Femur patients is currently around 30%. For Tibia it is even much worse. Dr. Betz is constantly lying to hs patients and actually gets very unfriendly if you ask too many questions. He is well protected by the rotten German law system, which is massively in favor of doctors.
Stay away from Dr.Betz, no matter which nail he uses.
Thanks for coming here and telling us all this Mime.
But you would need to tell us how you found all this out too. :)
If you went as far as finding his name, your source of information is very important here.
Thank you
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I was told the new 20 click 11mm betzbone nail is supposed to be almost as strong as the old 15 click 13mm betzbone. Has anyone heard anything about the new 11mm betzbone nail bending or breaking?
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If you want to know whether Dr. Betz is reliable or not, ask these questions during your consultation.
There is no way anyone can get accurate facts about any doctor unless you gather all his previous patients(which is impossible)
Also being shown some patients who say good about the result should not add to the credibility of this doctor when you have a consultation. Bear this in mind.
You can decide it for yourself.
1. Tell him that you are recording this consultation just to be safe. (this is very important. imagine something happens later and you don't have a proof that you've been misled. And he should agree to this if not.... well.)
2. Ask him which company manufactures the Betzbone.(its name and location)
a) its material
b) whether it has any government-body approval on it or CE marking like Guichetbone
U.S FDA approved Precice nail and its manufacturer is Ellipse technology(which you can google and find out)
AND NOT about pending Patents. Pending patents does not mean it is medically safe. You can request patents for something that goes into iPhone.
c) its weight bearing capacity and THE SOURCE OF that claim.(if he cites his own blah, ask for the documentation)
also the extent of the weight bearing capacity.
3. The rate of complication for cosmetic limb lengthening by dr. Betz. Have it written down with his official signature.
Bending, breakage. etc... also separate by categories 11mm,13mm , men or women, femur or tibia... with which nail, albizzia or betzbone...
AND it does not matter if he says the reasons for most complications were due to the patients, if the number is high itself. that means he was not careful in satisfactorily informing the patients. (there is no way you can trust what I say but I second that claim the complication rate is closer to 30~40% for all his patients...)
if he can't answer to #2, then this question about complication rate and official documentation shouldn't be a problem unless there IS a problem)
4. if you can speak German, ask around in the hopsital he practises, not the Komfort Clinic(it is not a medical clicnic but rather a private hotel with nurses equipped placed next to a real hospital). Well, if you can ask like five doctors, do it. also even if remotely related to orthopedics.
ASK THIS "IN YOUR OPINION, IS DR BETZ AN ETHICAL DOCTOR?".
they are on his payroll... so just watch their reaction. If Dr.Betz is a great doctor as is claimed by so many on the diary, The reaction should be very uniformly warm and blah even though they do not agree with the idea of cosmetic limb lengthening.)
It is a big surgery and if he does not want to give you satisfactory asnwers... for that matter any doctors doing this procedure, just skip that doctor. The doctors should have no problem giving you asnwers unless he wants to hide something.
Also if you have the money to do internals with DR.Betz, surely you can afford Dr. Guichet or even DR.Paley. I can't say which one is an ethical doctor but please do have consultations with all of them. And also dont forget to ask whether prospective doctor has treated any complication case from other doctors(also details about them)
Best wishes.
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AND it does not matter if he says the reasons for most complications were due to the patients, if the number is high itself. that means he was not careful in satisfactorily informing the patients. (there is no way you can trust what I say but I second that claim the complication rate is closer to 30~40% for all his patients...)
Actually, I think it does matter if the reasons for most complications were due to patient stupidity. I was in Beijing during the height of its popularity as a clinic. We had between 20 and 30 foreign patients there at any given time as vets finished and newbies arrived. I couldn't believe some of the stupid sh*t I saw people doing there. A guy walking all around the whole place, without crutches, ONE DAY after his frame removal/IM nail fixation when the doctors told him to stay in bed for one week and only walk to the toilet with the nurse's help. A really petite girl turning 1.3mm a day when she was already past 7cm and having pain/mobility problems, when the doctors told her to turn no more than .67mm a day because they were worried she'd snap one of her tiny tendons. So yeah, 30% patient-induced complications sounds about right to me.
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radoma, but I'm afraid many famous doctors are arrogant. Even if they're legit, they'll think we're questioning their integrity.
I don't know what the situation with LL is, though.
Apparently with Dr. Guichet, _you_ have to convince him to do LL on you. Can you ask him such questions then? What if he says, "if you don't trust your doctor, you shouldn't be doing this".
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I was told the new 20 click 11mm betzbone nail is supposed to be almost as strong as the old 15 click 13mm betzbone. Has anyone heard anything about the new 11mm betzbone nail bending or breaking?
Hi Bob,
I know a bunch of people where it bent and 1 guy where it broke. The new 11mm nail seems be prone to bend quickly, after clicking a few cm. Anyway, the comparison is the typical kind of Bull Betz is telling his patients. You can be sure that no Betzbone is as strong as the Albizzia. Most successful diaries With Betz are from the time he still had the Albizzia. Most new diaries end abruptly. I don't believe e.g. that Stillyoung wrote the last post in his diary. Letsgettaller also went quiet. Even Sysopeosis bent his Betzbone nails. All nails developed by Betz are non-weightbearing. He simply advertises them as weightbearing because the German law makes it easy for him to get away with.
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Hi Bob,
I know a bunch of people where it bent and 1 guy where it broke. The new 11mm nail seems be prone to bend quickly, after clicking a few cm. Anyway, the comparison is the typical kind of Bull Betz is telling his patients. You can be sure that no Betzbone is as strong as the Albizzia. Most successful diaries With Betz are from the time he still had the Albizzia. Most new diaries end abruptly. I don't believe e.g. that Stillyoung wrote the last post in his diary. Letsgettaller also went quiet. Even Sysopeosis bent his Betzbone nails. All nails developed by Betz are non-weightbearing. He simply advertises them as weightbearing because the German law makes it easy for him to get away with.
I like smart posts like this. very helpful to most of us out there who wonder what is really going.
still young used to post every day and all of a sudden he disappears!
That got me worried but bow that you have pointed out other bets patient who appeared to have suffered he same fate The PICTURE is now much clearer.
only a few bad posts about the betz nail are posted to ensure the majority of the posts paint a very good picture about the nail.
This is so sad because when those nails break you have to spend another fotune for those titanium rods. how sad!
But guess what, those replacement nails mean betz can perform another sugery at ur expense = betz making extra cash!!!
There are so many crooks out there!!!! :(
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Mime, I hope you didn't miss my post.
May I ask you what your source of information about SysOp's real name and arm-lengthening odyssey is?
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Mime, I hope you didn't miss my post.
May I ask you what your source of information about SysOp's real name and arm-lengthening odyssey is?
Hi,
Sorry but i cannot disclose my source in an open forum.
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wow, this is valuable information.
I was hellbent on doing Betz. Now I am more in favor of Guichet.
Agree that those abruptly ending diaries on old forum were suspicious. Especially stillyoungs last post "yes, i am here" which probably was posted by sysOP.
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This quote is very misleading! Very few people have the bone canal to naturally support the full 13mm nail. The only way Dr. Betz can make enough room for the 13mm nail is to ream the inside of your bone far more than is recommended for someone whose bone canal should have the 11mm nail.
There are plenty of patients who have had the 13mm and still bent or broke the nails and screws. Dr. Betz simply has his patients weight bear too early and often regardless of the diameter of the nail that is used for lengthening. There are so many examples within the Dr. Betz diaries (both hidden and out in the open) and countless more when you visit Dr. Betz in Germany and talk with his patients.
How long has the 13mm nail been around for?
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Hello Frank,
Betz uses his own nails since 2011. The 13mm is of course better than the 11mm, however there are still many cases with nail bending and fractions even long time after finishing clicking.
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This is getting absolutely ridiculous how many patients need to get the titanium nail replacement with Dr. Betz! Absolute rip off over there at the Betz Institute that you have to pay $25,000 because the Betzbone constantly bends and breaks!
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This is getting absolutely ridiculous how many patients need to get the titanium nail replacement with Dr. Betz! Absolute rip off over there at the Betz Institute that you have to pay $25,000 because the Betzbone constantly bends and breaks!
Seriously. Why spend so much on crap that you'll eventually need replaced when you can just pay more upfront to start off with titanium? (ie PRECICE).
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God, it's scary how many broken nails are being reported with the Betzbone.
Y'know what's even scarier? That SysOp/Apotheosis continues to push it on old forum when he's profiting off the misery of others.
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God, it's scary how many broken nails are being reported with the Betzbone.
Y'know what's even scarier? That SysOp/Apotheosis continues to push it on old forum when he's profiting off the misery of others.
Agree 100% with you! It's disgusting to watch Apotheosis/Sysop and Dr. Betz willing to make patients guinea pigs so they can line their pockets with money!
Trust me when I say the bent and broken nails and screws with the Betzbone are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to complications with Dr. Betz and the Betzbone...
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Trust me when I say the bent and broken nails and screws with the Betzbone are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to complications with Dr. Betz and the Betzbone...
Tell us everything you know!
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hello everybody,
I have been a member of old forum since 2009. I was there when old forum was running the forum, and when he gave the steering wheel to SysOp. I think the forum has changed a lot since its beginning, mostly this year. Lot of suppressed post, communication between members cut off. I don't trust it anymore. But I can remember it has not been always like that. I think old forum was fair, and maybe Sysop at the beginning.
Anyway, I have some questions:
1/if this forum want to be fair and honnest, how will the traffic be funded and managed? old forum got tired to supervise teh forum and I can really unserstand it. The involvement of SysOp (he is almost always connected, as a full time job.... ) is clearly suspect.
2/could we gather our knowledge about former patient (met in REAL please, after consultation) in order to guess rough statistics about the rate of complications.
The only thing I am 100% sure about Betz is Hanna's case, because I met her after the op, and whaen I saw her, she was ok. There were two others guys, one had a complication with the nail (bend/broken I don't remember)
3/ Have you ever heard/met some cases of extremes complications, like limb loss, paralysis, or serious similar handicap...?
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1/if this forum want to be fair and honnest, how will the traffic be funded and managed? old forum got tired to supervise teh forum and I can really unserstand it. The involvement of SysOp (he is almost always connected, as a full time job.... ) is clearly suspect.
- For the server's expense, it's not a massive sum as you may be led to believe, $10-$20 monthly. It's not necessary for anyone to donate $2500 or whatever old forum is asking for.
- Managing this forum, we currently have 3 moderators and may add more, it's about having a group discussion to make decisions than anything else.
- There's no need to supervise the forum when it's about open discussion and honest information regarding LL. I trust members will eventually settle any difference in opinions between themselves like adults.
You can find more information in the thread (Purpose of the Forum) and (Official Forum Guidelines)
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3/ Have you ever heard/met some cases of extremes complications, like limb loss, paralysis, or serious similar handicap...?
No, never heard. The worst cases I've heard were bent or broken nails, that were fastly solved with a surgery. It sounds that you cant trust 100% on Betznail but you can trust 100% on Dr. Betz surgery skills.
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I beg to differ
I know of cases of bone infection. Further there are severe cases of compartment syndrome with long term nerve and muscle damage. Also in cases the nail breaks there are bone fracture and soft tissue damages. I know of people sitting in a wheelchair 6 months after breaking their nail.
Dr. Betz takes on patients who have been refused by other doctors because of their bone structure or -density. These patients end up with lifelong damages.
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Hi Mime,
what kind of bone structure or -density would/could lead to being refused LL?
Please share more of your knowledge (patient complications, etc.) - thank you!
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OldieButGoldie, patient of Dr. Betz, posted this x-ray of his Left Femur today... his left femur looks bent a few degrees. Can and should this be corrected? OBG, if you see this and want the picture removed, just let me know.
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/ronald394/Zuschneiden_4_zpscf6d9999.jpg)
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This is why they don't do internals in Beijing - you can't do corrections if something goes crooked, and they fix all complications for free.
But I'm sure Betz would be happy to straighten that leg out for $25000.
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I saw OBG's X-ray on old forum and can't say I would be happy to have my femurs like that.
Hopefully nothing is wrong and he won't be affected of it but for a procedure that expensive it doesn't look so good.
Maybe it's the angle in one picture but it seems like there is a screw through the bone but not through the nail. It seems to go under the nail so the nail can rest on it.....
Betz should know what he is doing so I guess it's ok.
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Yeah, that screw that isn't screwed into anything is puzzling to me too.
Also, on looking at it more closely it seems that his bone is naturally bent. The bend doesn't start until well below the osteotomy. Maybe Betz can't correct it but it doesn't look like he caused it, if it's even something that should be corrected. To be honest this is the first femur x-ray I've ever looked at. Beijing is a tibia place so I'm a tibia guy.
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Maybe it's the angle in one picture but it seems like there is a screw through the bone but not through the nail. It seems to go under the nail so the nail can rest on it.....
Betz should know what he is doing so I guess it's ok.
I seem to recall OBG mentioning something about Betz addiing it for extra support although he doesnt normally do it for patients, I think he previously had bent screws also?
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OldieButGoldie, patient of Dr. Betz, posted this x-ray of his Left Femur today... his left femur looks bent a few degrees. Can and should this be corrected? OBG, if you see this and want the picture removed, just let me know.
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/ronald394/Zuschneiden_4_zpscf6d9999.jpg)
Wow guys, some wild comments and speculations going on in here. So let me comment on it: almost every human femur bone is bent a few degrees.
Perfectly normal. Cannot be corrected and -of course- should not be corrected.
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I saw OBG's X-ray on old forum and can't say I would be happy to have my femurs like that.
Hopefully nothing is wrong and he won't be affected of it but for a procedure that expensive it doesn't look so good.
Maybe it's the angle in one picture but it seems like there is a screw through the bone but not through the nail. It seems to go under the nail so the nail can rest on it.....
Betz should know what he is doing so I guess it's ok.
Sweden, I don´t quite get what you mean by "I can´t say I would be happy to have my femurs like that". What exactly do you mean?
You saw the full-body-pictures in my diary and made some enthusiastic comment. Now this comment... I don´t get it...Please explain.
The screw underneath the nail is for extra support. It is well documented in my diary. I had my screws broken (probably too much activity), so in september Betz had to exchange the screws (he was quite shocked about the broken screws...) and -for extra support- he inserted this extra screw. Just in case.
The nail is not resting on it. But in september Betz was afraid all my activity might -in a very very unlikely worst case- break the screws again so he wanted me to be on the safe side.
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Yeah, that screw that isn't screwed into anything is puzzling to me too.
Also, on looking at it more closely it seems that his bone is naturally bent. The bend doesn't start until well below the osteotomy. Maybe Betz can't correct it but it doesn't look like he caused it, if it's even something that should be corrected. To be honest this is the first femur x-ray I've ever looked at. Beijing is a tibia place so I'm a tibia guy.
All answered in my above posts... ;)
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to summarize with a few words: everything is fine, I feel like I could lift a car with my legs and surgery is only 7 and a half months ago.
I would definitely go skiing tomorrow if there was more snow in my favourite skiing resort. Just easy skiing, like cruising on easy slopes, no moguls, no jumping.
I found it interesting to read the comments of the vets on my bone consolidation on old forum but I disagree. I feel like my bones are solid, still -of course-
I would never do any heavy impact sports for now, but everything else it totally ok in my opinion.
Peace
OBG
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Wow guys, some wild comments and speculations going on in here. So let me comment on it: almost every human femur bone is bent a few degrees.
Perfectly normal. Cannot be corrected and -of course- should not be corrected.
OBG- The problem is only ONE of your femur bones is bent to such a degree that it is noticeable on the x-ray. That's the real problem and no it's not perfectly normal and it should be corrected!
If it was normal then both of your femur bones would be bent in the same way and they are not...
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Normal or not, that's how his legs were going into the surgery. Since the straight part is being lengthened, the overall curvature of the femur will be lessened by the LL. A corrective surgery would be totally separate from LL.
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Normal or not, that's how his legs were going into the surgery. Since the straight part is being lengthened, the overall curvature of the femur will be lessened by the LL. A corrective surgery would be totally separate from LL.
This kind of bad information is dangerous to people. You really don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Here is OBG x-rays BEFORE he bent his right femur bone.
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/ronald394/woodyamparni_zps968f73e1.jpg)
Here is OBG AFTER he bent his right femur bone.
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/ronald394/Zuschneiden_4_zpscf6d9999.jpg)
Just another example of how dangerous it is to lengthen with Dr. Betz. To think that Dr. Betz told OBG everything is fine is down right criminal! Anybody can see there is something seriously wrong with this x-ray and his bent right femur bone. Anybody except all the corrupt veterans on old forum who said absolutely nothing about his bent femur bone since it came from Dr. Betz.
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Hi Oldie,
Your left nail is bent as can be see in the front view .However it is only a few degrees, therefore you shouldn't be too much impacted. The bone consolidation looks good, but of course the 3rd screw in your right leg is a typical example of Betz tinkering. He is always tinkering with his patients. Anyway, you are one of the lucky Betz patients.
Handy, i think you are comparing the front view x-rays with the side view. It is indeed normal for the legs in the side view to have a more rounded shape.
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Sorry handy, but what you are writing is absolute bull and I kindly ask you to stop spreading this nonsense and confusing people.
You are comparing x-rays from a front view with x- rays from a lateral view.
The natural -and normal curvature- of the bone can be seen on the x-ray with lateral view.
Let me put this clear again, although I am repeating myself: femurs bones are naturally bent!!
Yours, too, handy!!!
Everybody who has read my diary knows that I am not promoting any doctor, but this conspiracy thing -this time directed towards all the "bad" vets- really drives me crazy...
And one last time: nails can bend during lengthening, but not the bone!
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Handy, i think you are comparing the front view x-rays with the side view. It is indeed normal for the legs in the side view to have a more rounded shape.
Indeed. Look at the angle of the screws handy, you are comparing two completely different aspects.
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Hi Oldie,
Your left nail is bent as can be see in the front view .However it is only a few degrees, therefore you shouldn't be too much impacted. The bone consolidation looks good, but of course the 3rd screw in your right leg is a typical example of Betz tinkering. He is always tinkering with his patients. Anyway, you are one of the lucky Betz patients.
Handy, i think you are comparing the front view x-rays with the side view. It is indeed normal for the legs in the side view to have a more rounded shape.
Hey Mime,
hope you are doing fine.
With all respect, I just stared for two minutes at the left front x-ray (visible on old forum ) and imo
it is really difficult to see this nail "bending" with the human eye. Even if it is bent for - let's say- 0,5 degree, it won't affect me at all. It has been like this for 5 months now.
I have been doing squats with 70kg in the gym for weeks and the nail is not bending one more millimeter because the bone has "taken over". ;)
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I didn't mean anything was wrong, your walking looks good and everything.
It's just that your callus is a bit blurred/uneven and I can see you've put a lot of force on your legs. It doesn't matter I think, your callus will heal properly I guess.
Apo's callus looked much thicker. I guess it doesn't disturb the muscles being in that way.
Go to The Alps, there is snow right now :)
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It's just that your callus is a bit blurred/uneven and I can see you've put a lot of force on your legs.
How can you see that a lot of force has been put on legs by looking at x-rays??
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Sorry handy, but what you are writing is absolute bull and I kindly ask you to stop spreading this nonsense and confusing people.
this conspiracy thing -this time directed towards all the "bad" vets- really drives me crazy...
And one last time: nails can bend during lengthening, but not the bone!
This is something that always concerns me about Dr. Betz, and that is how little information his patients actually know about limb lengthening. During internal femur lengthening the bone can ABSOLUTELY bend. This can be caused by weight bearing too early and often which is very common among patients of Dr. Betz, or by the muscles surrounding the femur bone becoming too tight.
This is something Dr. Paley told me months ago when I met with him. The muscles around the femur bone are incredibly strong and can bend the bone during lengthening. If the muscles become too tight or if weight bearing is done too early and often they will force a deformity of the femur bone.
This is just the truth OBG. Just like like how Sysop/Apo uses people as guinea pigs with Dr. Sarin and Dr. Sringari and has Crazy+6 promote these butchers. Tall is nothing but a salesman for Dr. Mahboubian. Those are the three veterans who posted in your diary after you posted your x-rays and that's who i'm talking about when I say corrupt veterans.
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This is something Dr. Paley told me months ago when I met with him. The muscles around the femur bone are incredibly strong and can bend the bone during lengthening. If the muscles become too tight or if weight bearing is done too early and often they will force a deformity of the femur bone.
The bend would happen at the osteotomy site not 8 inches below it.
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Hi Oldie,
you can easily check the bending by holding a ruler to the x-ray of the nail.
As already mentioned the bending is not big, so you won't need the titanium
rip-off. You are quite lucky to have such a quick regeneration and didn't lengthen
too much. Also you were relatively lightweight and had the 13mm nail fitting naturally.
These factors in your favor, you still had the broken screw complication which fortunately
Didn't have a big impact either. Wishing you all the best.
edited on user request
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Xrays look completly normal for me!
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I'm not defending anyone here BUT Betz patients are also the ones who lengthen the most in the diaries I have read " on average"
My guess is that those betz patients who lengthen below 6cm have significantly lower complication rates (mostly mechanical failures).
The reason for this "if it is the case" is obvious right.
Its unfair to compare betz with doctors who don't let their patients lengthen significant amounts.
The same goes for those Drs in asia who apparently have a limit on what they will allow you to lengthen.
We all know that risks increase after 5-6cm. we also know that LLing beyond 8cm increases ur risks exponentially.
So lets compare apples with apples. a good example is OBG. he lengthened below 6cm and he has come out alright. if he had been in a wheel chair and been extra cautious he would not even have had bent screws.
I agree that betz can be too optimistic and maybe be too much of a sales men by allowing patients to weight bear so early like he did with OBG.
other than this I think Betz is a great doctor for those of us who need to lengthen significant amounts. how hard is it to b extra cautious and avoid the expensive replacement titanium nails.
the thing that I don't understand is why the replacement nails r so expensive!!!... that's the bit that makes it seem like they do it to suck what ever is left of ur money h ah ah ah ahaaah aaa
why cant he use the same rod that is used in LON ( atleast for patients who are not heavy)
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Hi Adriano,
The titanium rods cost around 200 US$ per piece. The rest is profit minus cost for the hospital which cannot be too expensive since rod removal surgery is much cheaper. In defending Betz you still haven't understood the main problems with him:
-His nails are always bending and breaking
-He is lying to his patients about it
-He has a commercial interest in doing more surgeries with his patients
-He is sloppy and not well organized
-He is tinkering with his patients, always willing to experiment with his patients
-He never refuses a patient, never looking at bone density or blood values or bone structure before surgery
-He has an extremely high % of complications due to all of this.
-He after surgery treatment sucks big time( medication, physiotherapy, recommends lots of walking)
-He has no preparation whatsoever. His consultation is just about selling. No serious examination.
If you don't believe me go ask some people in Neunkirchen Hospital. They see all his cases. Betz has an extremely bad reputation there.
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Mime, it'd really put your claims in perspective and give them more validity if you could tell us what your relation to Betz and LL in general is and where you have gotten this information and/or impression. Are you a former patient? Are you a friend or relative of a former patient? Are you a health care professional who's worked with or around Betz or his patients? While I don't exactly doubt your claims because honestly I don't know what to believe anymore, how can we know what you're saying is correct? And if it is, shouldn't it all be reported to some kind of German medical oversight authority who could take action and straighten things out? I'm sure Betz has some kind of doctor's license that he doesn't want to lose.
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Dr. Betz is what he his. Do you want LL? He'll do it. After getting rejected in Serbia for BS reasons and then getting some no questions asked LL in Beijing, I love that about a doctor. It's the patient's choice whether to do LL and how much to lengthen. If you've got money and want 1st world medical treatment, but "aren't a good candidate" according to the more fussy doctors, Betz is there to provide LL for you. Getting turned down for LL was one of the worst experiences of my life.
The pros and cons have been stated in this thread, so people can go in with their eyes open and make their own decision about him.
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Dr. Betz is what he his. Do you want LL? He'll do it. After getting rejected in Serbia for BS reasons and then getting some no questions asked LL in Beijing, I love that about a doctor. It's the patient's choice whether to do LL and how much to lengthen. If you've got money and want 1st world medical treatment, but "aren't a good candidate" according to the more fussy doctors, Betz is there to provide LL for you. Getting turned down for LL was one of the worst experiences of my life.
The pros and cons have been stated in this thread, so people can go in with their eyes open and make their own decision about him.
Of course it's the patient's choice, but the doctor should show caution and responsibility and inform the patient of the risks. Doesn't sound like Betz does that?
It's a shame that he gives the impression of being of the same caliber as other western surgeons like Paley, Guichet, etc. If what Mime says in that list he posted, Betz must be way overpriced. Also, Germans are known for correctness and reliability in engineering. Myself, I thought that would make Betz a good choice, because a sloppy surgeon couldn't possibly operate in a rich country like Germany. Obviously, first impressions and stereotypes aren't always accurate.
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But is he really as bad as some say he is? Many people on this forum will believe any bad thing written about him and his patients, even making up reasons why he's a bad doctor.
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But is he really as bad as some say he is? Many people on this forum will believe any bad thing written about him and his patients, even making up reasons why he's a bad doctor.
Exactly, and who knows. That's why I am asking for more evidence for these claims or at least some hints at how someone would know such things.
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Hi guys,
long time no update to this thread. I needed to take a break from this very bitter subject. I won't yet disclose my exact relationship with Dr. Betz, but it is one of the 3 possibilities mentioned by medium drink above.
I will also disclose the story of a patient of Dr. Betz which gives an example why examinations and test before LL are indispensible.
The patient was refused by Dr. Guichet because her bone density was not good enough. So she went to Dr. Betz and started lengthening. After a few weeks she had a fracture in 1 leg. She needed another surgery and stop lengthening the leg. Dr. Betz convinced her to continue lengthen the other leg and after healing her fracture restart lengthening the other leg. She lengthened 6.5cm on the good leg and waited to heal the other leg. After the leg had healed, she got another surgery and lengthened the leg. She stayed over 1 year in Germany for this whole process. After lengthening she had another surgery to get titanium nails. She went home for consolidation.
Over 1 year later she returned to get the titanium nails removed. After removal while she was taking a first walk outside the Park Hotel - crack! Her leg broke again. She got another surgery and got another titanium nail inserted. She never removed this nail and will probably keep it for the rest of her life.
I don't know exactly how much she paid for the 6 surgeries plus the long time in Germany, but anybody can guess it was a fortune.
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Holy crap, that sounds terrible. Do you know if her bone density was an issue just for using an internal device like the G-nail or would that have been a problem too if she wore external fixators?
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That's a good question. I don't know but certainly there are many reasons why internals might not be suitable for a patient. The external fixator is more universal. Internals are more comfortable but ultimately have more risks. Another factor is the osteotomy which has a lot of influence on the whole healing process. Certainly Dr. Betz doesn't put much effort here either. He just uses a saw.
He is always cutting corners.
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Wow, just some heavy accusation.
I thought Dr Betz was a top doctor, and since stumbling upon this forum, I've been reading otherwise.
He is always cutting corners.
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Hi Mediocre,
Dr. Betz is most certainly among the worst doctors for limb lengthening and i can only warn people who consider going to him. It is actually quite funny how many people give him credit because he is German. Germany is famous for crappy service. Take on top of that the weird legal system which gives all protection to doctors and none to patients and you'll quickly discover that Germany is a bad place to undergo medical treatment in general.
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Hi Mediocre,
Dr. Betz is most certainly among the worst doctors for limb lengthening and i can only warn people who consider going to him. It is actually quite funny how many people give him credit because he is German. Germany is famous for crappy service. Take on top of that the weird legal system which gives all protection to doctors and none to patients and you'll quickly discover that Germany is a bad place to undergo medical treatment in general.
dude, can you stop spreading without backing it up.
Germans are known for pefection. They certainly do not provide 'crappy services'.
I think you need a little bit of blitzkrieg up your arse :D
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I agree with kusop. What you're saying wouldn't surprise me at all, but you can't just say things like that and expect us to believe it after all the biased misinformation that's been flying around the last year. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Why can't you even give us just a little?
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There's nothing extraordinary about claiming Dr.Betz is a shady doctor. Up to last year, he always seemed like one of the best options to go for LL. Then a lot of patient diaries abruptly stopped, some patients had problems like broken or bent screws (which is why this thread was opened). Some patients did exactly what the doctor told them to do, followed his word exactly, yet still faced such complications.
I am very positively prejudiced against Germans too (I believe in "German perfection" as well, especially in technology) but Dr.Betz simply doesn't seem like a good option anymore. At least not to me.
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Hey stupid,
you don't seem to have much first hand experience with Germans. Have you ever lived in Germany? I won't stop anything just because you want me to. Go to Betz and experience yourself 'German perfection'.
You are ruining this forum when you write serious accusations like that and don't back it up with evidence. I don't plan to do Betz. I am planning on Guichet, Paley or Donghoon.
Anyway, it doesn't matter if german law protects the doctor, all we are interested in the surgeons skills.
Apotheosis real name cannot be confirmed as real or fake. You gave common name which ten thousands of people have. It is hard to find him on fb,linkedin or any other social media.
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There's nothing extraordinary about claiming Dr.Betz is a shady doctor. Up to last year, he always seemed like one of the best options to go for LL. Then a lot of patient diaries abruptly stopped, some patients had problems like broken or bent screws (which is why this thread was opened). Some patients did exactly what the doctor told them to do, followed his word exactly, yet still faced such complications.
I am very positively prejudiced against Germans too (I believe in "German perfection" as well, especially in technology) but Dr.Betz simply doesn't seem like a good option anymore. At least not to me.
Hello Chris,
Don't get me wrong here. Germans do have their good traits as well as bad traits. However, the Germans created themselves the word "Servicewüste" which means service-desert to characterize their own everyday experiences in Germany. You don't have to agree with that, however it is something widely known among people who live in Germany.
I mentioned this only in order to make people aware that they are unprotected when they go to Germany to undergo LL. This is important information and should be taken into consideration for people who want to undergo LL . For example doctors in the US have to play it safe because their risk to lose a lawsuit in case something goes wrong is not negligible. The legal framework for the whole Limb Lengthening process does have huge implications.
That's the main reason why Betz patients are allowed to walk with or without crutches during lengthening while e.g. patients of Dr. Paley are not.
Best wishes
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I think it's very important thing to note seriously how each nation protects patients from any negligence from doctors. For this reason alone, I won't be considering India. Something can happen from an operation to the lengthening phase. This happens even to the best of doctors. (People die from as simple as tonsillectomy). I believe that if a nation's law on negligence is not strict, doctors however good they are, won't make extra effort to up the standard.
I didn't know Germany's law is wanting in patient protection. But Mime, do you think Germany's law is subservient to a more compressive EU law, which I would assume, more patient-centric?
If only money is not a factor, most of our roads will lead to West Palm Beach with all of us sipping piñacolada at Paley Beach while lengthening our Precise. ;)
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Hi Mediocre,
I am not aware of any EU law which protects patients. The doctor's lobby is very strong in Germany and the German government could block any new law. I know regulations in other EU countries are more patient friendly like France. In Germany the doctor is not responsible for the result of a treatment. He is only obliged to give the treatment according to medical standard. Even if he makes a mistake he is not liable as long as the patient cannot prove the causality of his damage is due to the doctor's negligence. I.e. the patient must prove 2 things. In practice this means the patient has a 99% chance to lose a lawsuit against a doctor, no matter what happened to him.
Who would go to Germany for medical treatment if he knew about this?
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Hi Guys,
I am doing LL with Dr. Betz right now. As a patient of him I can just say its ridiculous what people post here. I am fed up with those people. They gave me such a hard time before surgery and I even believed all this not backed up nonsense. After the consultation I knew I want to go with Betz. But then again I had too much time to read on the forum and got concerned again because of all this nonsense people post here. So I decided to go Germany again and visit some more patients. All in all I met a lot of Betz patients and they were all doing fine. So I knew I will stop reading on the forum. Thats what the other patients recommended to me and it just makes sense. People come here and post whatever they want, give no back up and everyone believes it.
So I did the surgery a few weeks ago and I am absolutely happy with it. I justed reached 5cm and feel huge ;D ;D ;D
Professor Betz is an amazing surgeon. I have many respect for Dr. Betz. He cares so much for his patients, every former patient would confirm that. He woke me up after surgery, dressed me, walked around with me, helped me going to the toilet and really took his time. He visited me every day in the hospital and made sure everything is fine.
You cant imagine how many patients I saw who were doing so well and never posted. They come, lenghten and then disappear. Dr. Betz is doing up to three LL surgerys a week. Its true there were some complications with the old 11mm. But that was still a tiny minority and Betz invented a new generation of the Betzbone. The 11mm is now nearly as strong as the 13mm. He didnt have any problems with that nail yet. I only met one patient with a bent 11mm nail (pretty sure it was one of the old generation) and he lenghtened 11cm and said himself that he just moved way too much without crutches while lenghtening.
My physio therapist Peter Woll said that most of the people who had a bent nail are just not completely honest. They try to hide the fact that they maybe slipped or did anything else they shouldnt have done.
A fact which even surprised myself: I am staying at Haus Liborius with Elke and she said to me that of over 100 patients she just had like 5 major complications (fractur, bent or broken nail).
My initially plan was actually not to post anything but the fact that all this false information about Betz nearly drove me crazy before surgery, because I was worried a lot, made me think twice. I want to help those people who are still deciding where to go.
Betz is not cheap, I am still very young and had to save up really hard. But I knew I want to do it right and its like everywhere: You get what you pay for.
So if you seriously think about LL stop jealous people (who probably cant afford the most skilled LL doctor inthe world) making you crazy. Go for a consultation with Professor Betz, meet his team, visit his patients and come and see for yourself.
cheers
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I don't have much sympathy for Dr. Betz (e.g. due to his 25k titanium nail replacement rip-off), but judging from the diaries he produces great results and quick recoveries. So I believe you are in good Hands :)
But your following statement is actually not in Betz' favour:
A fact which even surprised myself: I am staying at Haus Liborius with Elke and she said to me that of over 100 patients she just had like 5 major complications (fractur, bent or broken nail).
In the medical context, a 1/20 chance of major complications is actually very high. If you know you have a 5% chance of fractur, bent or broken nail, would you go with that Dr?
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Hi LLto180, I hope you post a diary here chronicling your LL journey.
So far, those who have done LL with Dr Betz recommended him.
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How did you manage 5cm in a few weeks ? I'm amazed. ::)
Yes, I would like to know how anyone could get 5cm in just a "few weeks." If so, that would be a viable option for me next year and I can keep my job and I could take out a mortgage and pay him as much as he wants.
And I define "few weeks" to be 2-3 weeks at most. If it means 2 months, for the same price, I rather go with Guichet, Paley or Franz (using precise 2) and not have to put up with paying 25k euro on top of the overly charged fee for the titanium nail.
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How did you manage 5cm in a few weeks ? I'm amazed. ::)
As you probably realized english is not my native language and for me a few is something between 3-7. My surgery was exactly 7 weeks from now. I grow 1 mm a day.
So I just got up and will click now and then I have my 5cm :):):) ;D ;D ;D
I don't have much sympathy for Dr. Betz (e.g. due to his 25k titanium nail replacement rip-off), but judging from the diaries he produces great results and quick recoveries. So I believe you are in good Hands :)
But your following statement is actually not in Betz' favour:
In the medical context, a 1/20 chance of major complications is actually very high. If you know you have a 5% chance of fractur, bent or broken nail, would you go with that Dr?
I talked to Elke again. I wasnt shure yesterday evening how many patients she already had, neither is she. But she said its close to 200. She isnt shure about it (dont forget she is doing it for 7 years now) but those 5 people had some bent screws or bent nails... a bent screw is easy and cheap fixable and a bent nail is fixable as well but costs you quite a bit of money. The really bad thing is when you have a fractur and she said she saw that only once... then you probably have to stop lenghtening, thats worst case. But if you have a fractur then you definately did something stupid.
About the titanium nails: As far as I know it costs you 16000 EUR (22000 USD). I am not sure what some guys think of that surgery but you you cant sit on a couch and Dr. Betz is putting titanium nails in your legs. He operates in a high modern surgery room. They have probably the most expensive devices you can get for money. Betz have to pay rent for the surgery room and thats expensive. He has to pay an anesthetist which is monitoring you during the whole procedur and like 5 other assistents who help him during the procedur. He has to pay the hospital to take care of you after surgery. There are a lot of hidden costs.
And if you do everything right you anyway dont have to go for titanium nails.
Whoever you choose you cant be faster than 1mm a day. But with Dr. Betz you can go to work (office job) once you leave the hospital. To tell you the truth I could have gone to work 3 days after surgery. No problem at all. Its individual of course but I think if someone really want to work he can do it. A lot of Betz patients work.
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LL Forumorlife, will you be writing a diary about your LL experience?
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As you probably realized english is not my native language and for me a few is something between 3-7. My surgery was exactly 7 weeks from now. I grow 1 mm a day.
So I just got up and will click now and then I have my 5cm :):):) ;D ;D ;D
I talked to Elke again. I wasnt shure yesterday evening how many patients she already had, neither is she. But she said its close to 200. She isnt shure about it (dont forget she is doing it for 7 years now) but those 5 people had some bent screws or bent nails... a bent screw is easy and cheap fixable and a bent nail is fixable as well but costs you quite a bit of money. The really bad thing is when you have a fractur and she said she saw that only once... then you probably have to stop lenghtening, thats worst case. But if you have a fractur then you definately did something stupid.
About the titanium nails: As far as I know it costs you 16000 EUR (22000 USD). I am not sure what some guys think of that surgery but you you cant sit on a couch and Dr. Betz is putting titanium nails in your legs. He operates in a high modern surgery room. They have probably the most expensive devices you can get for money. Betz have to pay rent for the surgery room and thats expensive. He has to pay an anesthetist which is monitoring you during the whole procedur and like 5 other assistents who help him during the procedur. He has to pay the hospital to take care of you after surgery. There are a lot of hidden costs.
And if you do everything right you anyway dont have to go for titanium nails.
Whoever you choose you cant be faster than 1mm a day. But with Dr. Betz you can go to work (office job) once you leave the hospital. To tell you the truth I could have gone to work 3 days after surgery. No problem at all. Its individual of course but I think if someone really want to work he can do it. A lot of Betz patients work.
You shouldn't ask Elke, ask the other doctors in Neunkirchen and Orscholz. It is obvious that people who have a financial interest in Betz try to downplay the complications. Blaming the patients is also a good method. You have just been lucky until now but that doesn't mean that the bad things didn't happen.
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Hey Mime,
How many of the Betz patients do you know with issues with their nails/screws?
Thanks.
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Hey Mime,
How many of the Betz patients do you know with issues with their nails/screws?
Thanks.
Around 30% of his femur patients.
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There was a time I was considering doing LL with him.
Around 30% of his femur patients.
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Around 30% of his femur patients.
you sure meant 30.121 % u lying sack of .
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you sure meant 30.121 % u lying sack of s**t.
Chill with the language. We can have respectful debates here without cursing community members out...
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The guy is a troll. That's all. Just ignore him.
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Chill with the language. We can have respectful debates here without cursing community members out...
sorry I had a bad day at the office.
But this guy needs to be stopped. Just look through his posting history. 90% of the posts contains defamotory information about Dr. Betz. None of it is backed by any evidence.
There is even a patient on the previous page who claims he had a second thought after reading all the negative things written only to find out its all false.
How is this any good? we are now trying to scare away future LLers from certain doctors? whats the logic in this? why is this allowed?
why is it only when someone points out his hateful misinformation that you reply? doesnt his misinformation deserve a critical view?
f**k me ... jeez
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I agree with you kusop. Mime, I'd really like to see the proof you have for your claims. Yes, we're well aware of the obscene prices Betz charges for nail replacements, but this doesn't automatically make him a horrible doctor with 30% nail failure rates.
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I agree with you kusop. Mime, I'd really like to see the proof you have for your claims. Yes, we're well aware of the obscene prices Betz charges for nail replacements, but this doesn't automatically make him a horrible doctor with 30% nail failure rates.
Don't feed the troll. What kind of proof do you have in mind? I am certainly not revealing my identity here just because of some troll. If you don't believe me that's fine with me.
Read my posts carefully and then decide whether it is all made up or not. And as a contrast read the dribble of this insolent troll who cannot control his rage.
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Don't feed the troll. What kind of proof do you have in mind? I am certainly not revealing my identity here just because of some troll. If you don't believe me that's fine with me.
Read my posts carefully and then decide whether it is all made up or not. And as a contrast read the dribble of this insolent troll who cannot control his rage.
Anything that proves where you received the info and the validity of this source. Posting baseless claims are as bad as users promoting the services of a doctor when it seems like they've cut a deal. It seems the opposite in your case, like you've cut a deal with his competition and want to deride Betz' services.
If you want more credibility to your claims, I suggest you post evidence or prove it to Dameon. Not saying you have to, but your posts would contain a lot more insight that way.
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sorry I had a bad day at the office.
But this guy needs to be stopped. Just look through his posting history. 90% of the posts contains defamotory information about Dr. Betz. None of it is backed by any evidence.
There is even a patient on the previous page who claims he had a second thought after reading all the negative things written only to find out its all false.
How is this any good? we are now trying to scare away future LLers from certain doctors? whats the logic in this? why is this allowed?
why is it only when someone points out his hateful misinformation that you reply? doesnt his misinformation deserve a critical view?
f**k me ... jeez
You are absolutely right. Its obvious that Mime seems to hate Dr. Betz for whatever reason. But what this guy is doing here is ridiculous. He just try to post negative information about Dr. Betz and he doesnt care if its true or not. 30% of his patients have complications? Sorry Mime but no one can take you serious anymore. This is just pure nonsense.
Like I already said I did a lot of research about the complications before I spent all my money for Dr. Betz. I cant tell you a number but I know it is really rare with the new Betzbone nails.
Mime said you have to ask people who are not in interest of Betz business. What a genius. Of course I did that. I had plenty of time during my stay at the hospital to talk to physio therapists, nurses or other doctors. They only confirmed that it is very rare to have a complication. Betz is highly regarded at the hospital. Apparently the new Betzbone is a big step forward.
Anyway the admin of this forum should stop these guys/posts. Otherwise this forum is going to be so useless again. Every post has to be backed up. And people who just try to scare or discourage other ones should be warned and otherwise banned.
This forum should help future patients making a decision to go with which doctor. It shouldnt confuse or scare them just because of a few people who try to post negative stuff about certain doctors.
To all future patients who are in the same situation I was a few months ago: like I already said, dont just trust some letters people post here. Save up, go for a consultation with Prof. Betz, meet his patients and then go for your dream. Dont let other people stop you from achieving your goals.
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Mime has been very helpful to me in replies to private questions about LL. I don't agree Mime is here just to hate Dr Betz, more to warn people about a negative experience. LL180, is he a real patient? He should provide proof also. Working 3 days after surgery sounds impossible.
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I am not sure who to believe, this is a lot of money your supposedly spending on one of the best surgeons, but hearing about broken screws and bend nails after you spend years of your life saving for supposedly one of the best surgeons is disheartening.
My choices would be
1. Guichet
2. Rozburch (not sure he will accept me in am 5'7")
3. Paley ( both dr rozbruch and paley uses precice 2 which to me is still in limbo and might need a recall, I just pray it's a bad batch dr lee received.)
4. Dr lee
Honestly if your spending that kind of money you don't want a nail that doesn't extend or is so weak that it will break.
Anyone hear about still young? Last time I heard his nail bent and we didn't hear from him again.
Lastly Apo/sysop and tall you cannot trust them bc these asswipes promote these dr and receive some benefit out of it...
So I think the gnail is the best bet until they can figure out what is wrong with the precice 2 batches by dr lee...
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I am doing LL with Dr. Betz right now. As a patient of him I can just say its ridiculous what people post here. I am fed up with those people. They gave me such a hard time before surgery and I even believed all this not backed up nonsense. After the consultation I knew I want to go with Betz. But then again I had too much time to read on the forum and got concerned again because of all this nonsense people post here. So I decided to go Germany again and visit some more patients. All in all I met a lot of Betz patients and they were all doing fine. So I knew I will stop reading on the forum. Thats what the other patients recommended to me and it just makes sense. People come here and post whatever they want, give no back up and everyone believes it.
I had plenty of time during my stay at the hospital to talk to physio therapists, nurses or other doctors. They only confirmed that it is very rare to have a complication. Anyway the admin of this forum should stop these guys/posts. Otherwise this forum is going to be so useless again. Every post has to be backed up. And people who just try to scare or discourage other ones should be warned and otherwise banned.
This forum should help future patients making a decision to go with which doctor. It shouldnt confuse or scare them just because of a few people who try to post negative stuff about certain doctors.
To all future patients who are in the same situation I was a few months ago: like I already said, dont just trust some letters people post here. Save up, go for a consultation with Prof. Betz, meet his patients and then go for your dream. Dont let other people stop you from achieving your goals.
This is my updated reply.
LLto180 seem to be emphasizing that people are posting nonsense here while putting down this forum. I have to point out some facts about what is being discussed in this thread.
1) The topic reads: Dr Betz Complications! Nail/Screws Break and Require More Money and Surgery
Started: September 26, 2013 here
So this was the first place that had an open discussion about this issue. Does Dr Augustin Betz internal nail/screws break and led to more money spent and surgeries?
2) If you search Complications with Dr. Betz in Google, you find that somebody read this topic and created another topic at the old forum. That thread is dated October 31, 2013 and it is mentioned that
" I became very concerned when I noticed all of the following complications from his patients and how much money I would have to spend."
Tall- Bent femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement.
Apotheosis- Broke Tibia nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement.
TibandFemur- Broke/bent Femur nail with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed the information himself and we only found out through other people. Stopped his diary.
Andrewshizzles- Titanium nail replacement for his femurs with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed information himself and we only found out through other people.
OldiebutGoldie- Bent nail/screws with Dr. Betz. Thankfully still posting and open about his feelings and complications. "
3) Mime has sent me Xrays, pictures of being in the hospital bed with bandages & wounds on the legs along with invoice document from Dr Betz. Base on these reasonable evidence, I'm inclined to believe that Mime is an actual patient of Dr Betz who went for LL surgery in Germany.
End of the day, this is an open forum where anyone can say anything, just like in the real world. I will leave people to draw their own conclusions after reading everything and not forgetting the suggestions listed here.
Reference: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
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I agree with you Rickybobby. I've yet to see a single negative result from Dr. Guichet. He seems like a genuinely nice and caring guy too from Leechlet's videos. If I could afford him, he'd definitely be my top choice.
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I agree with you Rickybobby. I've yet to see a single negative result from Dr. Guichet. He seems like a genuinely nice and caring guy too from Leechlet's videos. If I could afford him, he'd definitely be my top choice.
How much does he cost? For femur lengthening and then subsequent tibiae lengthening?
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3) Mime has sent me Xrays, pictures of being in the hospital bed with bandages & wounds on the legs along with invoice document from Dr Betz. Base on these reasonable evidence, I'm inclined to believe that Mime is an actual patient of Dr Betz who went for LL surgery in Germany.
he may well be a former patient. He may also have faked documents. But regardless, it doesnt make him eligable to write the amount of e and incredible misinformation that has been written in 65% of his posts.
All his tibia patients are messed up? betz worse than nazi doctors? what the heck is this?
I rather view Mime as an unlucky patient of betz who felt he was mistreated. Now he is on a distinguished path with a mission to destroy betz. Thats the scenario I find more likely.
Just unbelievable, have you read the posts I quoted (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=372.msg5999#msg5999) or read his posting history? Nothing justifies what he has been writing.
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he may well be a former patient. He may also have faked documents. But regardless, it doesnt make him eligable to write the amount of e and incredible misinformation that has been written in 65% of his posts.
All his tibia patients are messed up? betz worse than nazi doctors? what the heck is this?
I rather view Mime as an unlucky patient of betz who felt he was mistreated. Now he is on a distinguished path with a mission to destroy betz. Thats the scenario I find more likely.
Just unbelievable, have you read the posts I quoted (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=372.msg5999#msg5999) or read his posting history? Nothing justifies what he has been writing.
It is true that I had broken screws and also some broken nails. But why this happened? Did you ever ask what the patient did that he had a bent or broken nail? In most cases it was because of too much activity and too early maximum weight bearing in connection with a related osteoregeneration. In such a case every material becomes tired.
In case that a complication is happening to one of my patients it is always our first intention to help him with the best treatment as possible. And if the complication allows it I always try to give him a treatment where limb lengthening is furthermore possible. In some rare cases our help has been denied and refused nevertheless the patient could have reached the wanted height so he remained very unhappy and discontented.
The majorities of my patients are without any complication and don’t write in any forum because they are studying or working and have no time to spend in a forum. In most cases a patient writes in the forum when he has got problems: with clicking or with bent or broken nail or screw. They hope to get help in the forum from others with the same problem. Instead they should listen to the doctor when they have problems and not to people that have no medical education – including Sysop/Apotheosis. The others have no reason to write – what should they write? We understand that patients should report their experiences and this is ok but in many cases there are written so many wrong and confusing and not helpful things.
Mime should tell you from where he/she has got all the information. Why are his/her statements so full of hate, false and defamatory?
Every patient that is visiting me for a consultation can testify that I never lie to my patients and patiently answer to all questions – no matter how long it will take and how many the patients want to know. It is an important decision they have to do and for that they need as much information as possible.
Also the comfort clinic is not a hotel. It is a medical clinic – a private clinic, a member of the teaching University hospitals and a department of the city hospital where doctors and nurses are doing their work on a high standard.
If someone wants to have a limb lengthening done he should visit the doctor personally to make his own mind about him. I always recommend visiting also other doctors to decide who the best is for oneself.
I do limb lengthening for more than 30 years and never used a patient “as guinea pig” as Mime is claiming. I’ve never made a secret about our patients. Everybody visiting us can see former or current patients and talk in person to them also when there is one patient with a complication. We always animate interested persons to do that because we want them to be sure about the decision to do a limb lengthening.
Never in my live somebody compared me with a Nazi doctor. This is an accusation and a serious defamation. Before you register you agree to write in a serious kind and "that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy". What Mime wrote is defamatory, hateful, inaccurate and false.
I have nothing against when he is writing that he had a bad experience with me as his doctor but he should remain serious.
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Thanks for airing your thoughts.
I'm also very uncomfortable with some of the posts against you, and I have expressed this in some of my posts.
I think Mime is a former patient of yours. For the mods, would it be possible for Mime to disclose his name to the mods privately so Dr Betz can answer to his claims if he had personal issues with Dr Betz?
This of course entirely depends on Mime as Dr Betz is bound by patient confidentiality. But if he would not disclose himself, I think his vitriolic comments would be unfair and should be considered expunged from the forum.
This only in fairness with Dr Betz and Mime.
Any thoughts from other members?
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Thanks for airing your thoughts.
I'm also very uncomfortable with some of the posts against you, and I have expressed this in some of my posts.
I think Mime is a former patient of yours. For the mods, would it be possible for Mime to disclose his name to the mods privately so Dr Betz can answer to his claims if he had personal issues with Dr Betz?
This of course entirely depends on Mime as Dr Betz is bound by patient confidentiality. But if he would not disclose himself, I think his vitriolic comments would be unfair and should be considered expunged from the forum.
This only in fairness with Dr Betz and Mime.
Any thoughts from other members?
Thank you for your efforts to mediate between Mime and me. I have a clear idea who he is. It was a former patient of me. His behaviour during his treatment was similiar. I tried to talk to him many many times but he refused my help constantly.
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I, for one, want to say that I really appreciate you taking your time to come on this forum and help to ensure that we have accurate information. Thank you.
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info@betzinstitute.com just replied back saying he is indeed Dr Augustin Betz posting here.
The only way it's not him or not his representative is if the email is hacked.
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Don't worry about him Dr Betz. Take your time, as long as you will give us your side. Although the later you respond, these issues keep hanging in this forum.
I got your email reply and I believe it's you.
I will post the email screenshot as soon as I get home.
Hi,
I have no fear to answer you. As you know it is 1.24 am in Germany and I have to treat my patients well tomorrow. The need an alert doctor. I am still working in my office to finish some work because I am leaving Germany tomorrow for one week. So now you have to wait for your answers a bit longer.
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It's one thing to view something with scrutiny, but it's another to be rude outright. If Dr Betz's own info e-mail address responded and confirmed that it him posting on the forum, then what else is there to demand as proof? Yes it is important that people who have had bad experiences with doctors are able to freely post about it on the forum. At the same time, the doctors themselves should have just as much freedom to respond. In any case, let's all be civil in what we say. Lately things have gotten out of hand with the name calling and rude posts. The number one thing people come here for is free and open medical information. We want this forum to continue to grow. It's counterproductive to drive people away.
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Just got home.
I'll post a screenshot of his email within an hour.
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This is his email or his office email (info@betzinstitute.com) to me.
The time 8:08AM is Asian time and 00:47 is German time.
By the way the forum was going at this time I would assume that there's an implied consent from him to me that I can post his email. Anyway, there's nothing confidential in it.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/rbmcmp.jpg)
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It's one thing to view something with scrutiny, but it's another to be rude outright. If Dr Betz's own info e-mail address responded and confirmed that it him posting on the forum, then what else is there to demand as proof? Yes it is important that people who have had bad experiences with doctors are able to freely post about it on the forum. At the same time, the doctors themselves should have just as much freedom to respond. In any case, let's all be civil in what we say. Lately things have gotten out of hand with the name calling and rude posts. The number one thing people come here for is free and open medical information. We want this forum to continue to grow. It's counterproductive to drive people away.
I agree. It's one thing to ask questions to verify. It's another to accuse somebody without any logic. We want discussions to be base on facts, not baseless accusations. That is why I have removed handy's posts, so we can move this discussion on to something more rational and factual. It shouldn't take us long to verify Augustine/Dr Betz identity, which is the crux of the issue.
Update: I have received an email from info@betzinstitute.com (email address of Betz Institute) to verify that Dr Betz is registered here with the username Augustine.
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It's great to see you here, Dr.Betz! Welcome to the forum.
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I have been in contact with Dr Betz and Mime.
Dr Betz sent me a Pm with the following views.
"You are right that this is an open forum but it isn't at all correct to be named as a liar, the worst doctor ever and also to be compared with a nazi doctor. This also wouldn't be correct in the real world. Mime can talk about his experiences but in a sober way. The way he is talking about my person cannot be accepted by me and is also not allowed according to the agreement in this forum. Maybe you have an influence on him to give statements in a professionnal way."
Upon revision, Mime has request that some previous comments regarding Dr Betz be removed or edited. Mime sent me a PM with the following request
" Would it be possible to remove or revise some of my earlier post which sometimes were written in anger and went over the top? This would also help the discussion in general.
Those posts are too harsh and insulting. I don't want to insult Dr Betz but only criticize him. E.g. the nazi comparison. it is certainly not appropriate. i wrote them in anger and i understand now that they were insulting and not appropriate and not conform to the forum rules. I do apologize for them.
Hope you understand. The discussion should become more rational."
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Hello Augustine
Was the old albizzia 11 mm nail stronger? Because there is no case of bent 11 mm albizzia on old forum . It looks like the 11 mm betzbone is not strong? Is that true? I heard there is a new betzbone 11 mm with 20 clicks? Is that nail better? Less bending problems?
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thanks medicore and dameon for verifying all that.
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Brief video made by patients who lengthened 5 years ago talking about the weakness of the Betzbone.
Click here: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1756599
Updated list of confirmed complications with Dr. Betz and the Betzbone.
Tall- Bent femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Apotheosis- Broke Tibia nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
TibandFemur- Broke/bent Femur nail with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed the information himself and we only found out through other people. Stopped his diary.
Andrewshizzles- Titanium nail replacement for his femurs with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed information himself and we only found out through other people.
OldiebutGoldie- Bent nail/screws with Dr. Betz.
Stillyoung- Broke femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Mime- Serious complications with Dr. Betz.
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I hope Dr Betz would come back and visit this forum again to have his side on these cases.
Brief video made by patients who lengthened 5 years ago talking about the weakness of the Betzbone.
Click here: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1756599
Updated list of confirmed complications with Dr. Betz and the Betzbone.
Tall- Bent femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Apotheosis- Broke Tibia nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
TibandFemur- Broke/bent Femur nail with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed the information himself and we only found out through other people. Stopped his diary.
Andrewshizzles- Titanium nail replacement for his femurs with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed information himself and we only found out through other people.
OldiebutGoldie- Bent nail/screws with Dr. Betz.
Stillyoung- Broke femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Mime- Serious complications with Dr. Betz.
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Brief video made by patients who lengthened 5 years ago talking about the weakness of the Betzbone.
Click here: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1756599
Updated list of confirmed complications with Dr. Betz and the Betzbone.
Tall- Bent femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Apotheosis- Broke Tibia nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
TibandFemur- Broke/bent Femur nail with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed the information himself and we only found out through other people. Stopped his diary.
Andrewshizzles- Titanium nail replacement for his femurs with Dr. Betz. Never disclosed information himself and we only found out through other people.
OldiebutGoldie- Bent nail/screws with Dr. Betz.
Stillyoung- Broke femur nail with Dr. Betz. Titanium nail replacement
Mime- Serious complications with Dr. Betz.
Wrong.
I am in contact with Stillyoung and I know that he never had a broken nail.
It is true that he had a titanium replacement but he did only did for reasons of precaution.
I think it is terrible that you spread wrong information. How can you do this??
This is a safe way to destroy a doctors reputation. And the doctor does not really have a chance to prevent this because he is too busy with other things...
I think it it is very sad and unfair...
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Quote from Stillyoung:
However, because of my size and the slight bending of my nails, Dr. Betz kept me on crutches through my 4 month post-clicking x-rays.
I bent one of my nails to the point that it was starting to break.
Alas, I had to fly back to Germany two weeks ago to have titaniums put in.
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Hey Stadio,
I apologize.
Stillyoung is doing very good at the moment, maybe that's why I forgot the complication when I came back a little drunk from party last night and wrote my post... Sorry :-[
OBG
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I met Stillyoung in hospital when I had my surgery.
In his case the reason for nail bending was a delayed bone-healing plus walking without crutches too early, as far as I know. That's a possible complication with every internal nail.
What's most important is, that he is fine now.
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Just saw this message, 2.5 months later. I'll confirm that my right nail started started to break because I began walking without crutches before there was enough bone formation to support my weight. That prompted me to get titaniums in both femurs.
And yes, I'm doing fine...jogging, dancing, weightlifting :D
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I could be wrong but some youtube vids shows Guichet talk about possibility of screws breaking also. In all in all, one must be careful until consolidation
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No further info?
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Interesting, if you combine that with the information in "Creepy: old forum stillyoung's disappearance" thread, it starts to paint a clearer picture about the Betz nail.
I did like Betz, but, after what I've read here...bye bye bro.
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Tallerbetter, bro! I perfectly understand you. I am scared about Betz. There are some crazy (and crappy) doctors in this forum... I hate how they take advantage of us. They take our money and don't care about us.
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I did like Betz, but, after what I've read here...bye bye bro.
I know what you mean. I felt the exact same way.
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I know what you mean. I felt the exact same way.
We should fight against unethic doctors from this forum for preventing future patients from being crippled and disabled. Don't trust Saarin, dont't trust Mongeal, don't trust Betz... A lot of promotion and no good care.
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We should fight against unethic doctors from this forum for preventing future patients from being crippled and disabled. Don't trust Saarin, dont't trust Mongeal, don't trust Betz... A lot of promotion and no good care.
As far as I'm aware, Dr. Monegal has not done anything except offer some advice on the forums. There's nothing wrong with that and there's no reason why users have to demonize every doctor that has an internet connection. It's one thing to call out doctors with a history of crippling patients on their crap, it's another to automatically accuse them of being unethical with no basis whatsoever.
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As far as I'm aware, Dr. Monegal has not done anything except offer some advice on the forums. There's nothing wrong with that and there's no reason why users have to demonize every doctor that has an internet connection. It's one thing to call out doctors with a history of crippling patients on their crap, it's another to automatically accuse them of being unethical with no basis whatsoever.
yes why bad story tu Doctor Monegal is not normal??
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We should fight against unethic doctors from this forum for preventing future patients from being crippled and disabled. Don't trust Saarin, dont't trust Mongeal, don't trust Betz... A lot of promotion and no good care.
I'm sure it's not that simple. We can't start to defame doctors without solid evidence. The best we can do is educate ourselves based on multiple unbiased sources and think logically. No one is perfect, but taking responsibility for your involvement in a less favorable situation shows a enormous amount of character and integrity. I know this because my business is successful because I always take care of my clients, even if I end up taking a loss occasionally.
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We should fight against unethic doctors from this forum for preventing future patients from being crippled and disabled. Don't trust Saarin, dont't trust Mongeal, don't trust Betz... A lot of promotion and no good care.
What Dr Monegal did that you r dragging him in the likes of Sarin or Betz? seriously stop smearing someone name out of nothing...
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I wonder if the reason for some more complaining about betz is that He has Lot more patients than eg guichet.
Actually i See no real Problem with betz beside his damn recommendation to do 8cm.
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I wonder if the reason for some more complaining about betz is that He has Lot more patients than eg guichet.
Actually i See no real Problem with betz beside his damn recommendation to do 8cm.
This is what I see:
-many reports of broken or bent nails
-delayed consolidation due to unstable(wobbly nail)
-consolidation drastically improves once nail is replaced with titanium nail
-delayed consolidation leads to the nail having to carry the weight of the patient for a lot longer than expected
-encouraging longer lengthening increases the chances of complications, longer recovery times, longer physiotherapy
If your doctor wants to encourage you to lengthen more, then he should also share some of the costs of the complications. If this were the case, I'm sure he wouldn't be suggesting people to go beyond 8 cm. I'm sure there are patients that are thankful for doctors that let them do whatever they want and not interfere. What bothers a lot of us here is that some impulsive people are given a false sense of security and encouragement from a doctor, who is supposed to be an authority figure on the subject of LL.
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Thx. The question is if betz is still a good choice. Beside Paley and guichet there are no alternatives.
I dont want to go for Paley as i am living in Europe. Guichet seems for me not so good as i saw some strange diaries about him. Most successful stories are with betz as obg, hanna, etc.
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I'm old (patient) and trainer of patient of doctor Guichet 2003 2004 2005
every probleme is not doctor is patient
1/ patient no training every day
2/patient no strech exercise
3/patient no good food during lingtheneing and after
4/patient abuse of pain killer
5/patient stupid 2 month after use trampoline or jumb (very good for break nail)
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Thx. The question is if betz is still a good choice. Beside Paley and guichet there are no alternatives.
I dont want to go for Paley as i am living in Europe. Guichet seems for me not so good as i saw some strange diaries about him. Most successful stories are with betz as obg, hanna, etc.
You are right, we only have a handful of doctors to choose from worldwide. I can't vouch for any doctor since I never did LL, all I can do is read people's experiences and go from there. I read those diaries that seem like success stories too; but pay attention to the little things, there are small clues in the words of the patient that paint a different picture. Luckily in the end they come out of LL fine.
What I don't like the idea of people having to make such an important decision based on money and convenience. I used to think that way too, and now I will keep learning as much as I can about LL up until my surgery day. We are all on this side of the fence and helps if we try and look out for each other, even if by doing so we end up driving the price of LL beyond a realistic figure.
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I'm old (patient) and trainer of patient of doctor Guichet 2003 2004 2005
every probleme is not doctor is patient
1/ patient no training every day
2/patient no strech exercise
3/patient no good food during lingtheneing and after
4/patient abuse of pain killer
5/patient stupid 2 month after use trampoline or jumb (very good for break nail)
I saw a lot of the same things in China. Even with Guichet's rigorous screening process, some problem patients get through. Now imagine what might happen with doctors like Betz and Xia who'll seemingly take anyone. I doubt that all these claims against Betz are his fault. I'd have gone to him if I could've afforded his fees.
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These people are always talking crap without reason. Dr. Monegal is the best.
It in our nature to get upset and overreact, find someone responsible etc. It's unfortunate that some innocent people get caught up in the middle of it.
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We should fight against unethic doctors from this forum for preventing future patients from being crippled and disabled. Don't trust Saarin, dont't trust Mongeal, don't trust Betz... A lot of promotion and no good care.
I agree bro.These doctors ain't no good. Many people agree
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Betz has had many succesful cases, but also many crappy cases. I dont know what to think about him. He's too expensive anyway...If something nasty happens, even more expensive! Trash!
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Betz has had many succesful cases, but also many crappy cases. I dont know what to think about him. He's too expensive anyway...If something nasty happens, even more expensive! Trash!
It's not just about his complication rate, which is quite high, but his criminal behaviour. Can really anyone consider to go to a doctor who is lying to his patients, exposes them to unnecessary risks and totally abandons them in case of serious complications? He is a reverse orthopedic surgeon: he takes healthy people and cripples them. And even his successful cases, do you know how much they recovered or whether they could be in better shape if they went with another doctor?
If you don't believe me, go and ask other doctors who know Betz.
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so scary man
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How about his current version of Betzbone now? Can he be more trusted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQoORVMaTpU
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its dr betz safer actually? :(
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My impression after meeting him:
-He has a new nail, that is significantly more improved.
-He himself, is very trustworthy, he genuinely does seem to care about what he does
-Corrosion is something he says is a big risk with other nails, you get a condition that mimics sepsis and will not happen with his nail
-Pre-consolidation - because of the strength of the nail, if you begin to pre-consolidate, maybe i understood it wrong, it just takes extra clicks to get it going because it is a much stronger nail than others in the market
-Rarely any non-union cases
This is with Femurs. He is the best one imo to go to for Femurs. And he now offers ITB release - and if you can convince him to give you a proper ITB release, it could avoid you having to fly to Greece after with Dr Goitikas due to wide legs etc