Limb Lengthening Forum

Limb Lengthening Surgery => Height & Proportions => Topic started by: microman on May 12, 2015, 04:53:35 PM

Title: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 12, 2015, 04:53:35 PM: I plan to add either 5 or 6cm to my tibs, so for tib and femur proportions how would I look?

http://i.imgur.com/h6tleTf.jpg?1
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on May 12, 2015, 05:53:02 PM: How tall are you? Whats your inseam and knee height? It all depends in the length of your segments.
Generally most people can get away with 5-6cm's without a noticable disproportion.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 12, 2015, 06:29:32 PM: i am 164cm
knee height is 48cm.

inseam 72cm (may not be very accurate)
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Uppland on May 12, 2015, 07:07:24 PM: You gotta show us your torso and then someone can make a mock-up.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 12, 2015, 07:09:26 PM: I was just trying to see the difference between tibia and femur, my torso isn't really a factor, I believe.

I was hoping I had maybe a shorter than normal tibia, maybe this is not the case?
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: KiloKAHN on May 12, 2015, 07:12:00 PM: I think tibia lengthening would suit your tib/femur ratio better.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 12, 2015, 07:17:44 PM: Thanks, I am only planning to do one LL surgery in my life so I need to make sure I pick the correct bone segment.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on May 12, 2015, 07:21:14 PM: You should get them measured by x-rays only then you know about your ratio.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 19, 2015, 09:31:41 AM: i know this is not entirely on topic but what do you do to get an x-ray, wont the doctor ask you why you want an x-ray, what is it you would usually say in that situation, and do you know the general price of one in the UK.

Thanks
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: tx1111 on May 19, 2015, 10:20:09 AM: I was initially gonna get xray done in US and send to my LL doc. I had found places were you can go and get xrays and you pay. I called them and they said 160$. I eventually said fk it and traveled to my LL doctor and had him do a complete evaluation.

When I was planning on going to get xrays in US, If they asked I was just not gonna tell them anythng. You are paying for it, no insurance or doctor referral so no explanation needs to be given. If they ask just tell them you dont feel like saying.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 19, 2015, 11:03:21 AM: okay so do I go to a hospital or a doctors place for it, and should i ask them what cm's my tibs and femur are, or will the x ray just tell me.

just need to decide if its 5 or 6cm im going for, remember its only 1 surgery.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: lumiere on May 19, 2015, 12:32:23 PM: I think femours will look better
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: tx1111 on May 19, 2015, 02:48:44 PM: REmember I ended up just going to the doctor I settled on for the xrays.

From what I remember, I googled places that did xrays and called them up and asked them if I can just pay for xrays, they said yeah.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 19, 2015, 04:14:59 PM: okay, do i ask for a measurement of my leg bones, or will the x-ray just say them on the picture.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 20, 2015, 12:07:08 AM: okay after having found out about the pain free LL i may be considering two LL surgeries, I was thinking 2x6cm, that would bring me to 176, 1cm above the male average.

anyway here is a full body shot, any advice would be very welcome.

http://i.imgur.com/DTsacc0.jpg

wingspan is 167 btw.

also 174 with 2x5cm may also be an option, normally i wouldn't consider 2 surgeries, but if my ratio looks better, and its pain free, i would do both at the same time, so while my tibs are consolidating my femurs can be lenghening, overall this would save about 4 months of time and extra flight trips in comparison to doing the surgeries at separate times.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 22, 2015, 04:22:15 PM: okay i tried finding out if i could get an x-ray, sadly i need to see my GP before i can be allowed to get an x-ray, in addition i need to do a bit of traveling to get an x-ray machine that can get the exact cms of each bone.

overall seems a waste of time really.

but i would like to know how i would look with 6cm on tibs, is there some special way to make a mockup in paint where you can judge the cms.

here is my attempt to add height on my tibs, to me it looks a little strange, maybe i added 10cm or something, i really don't know.

This is why I'm starting to wonder if 5cm would be better than 6cm given my proportions.

http://i.imgur.com/DvBf0lR.jpg?1

here is an attempt to add 5cm to both tibs and femur, to see if my problem rises in the tib/femur ratio more than it does the leg/arm ratio.

http://i.imgur.com/AZ2B81C.jpg?1

to me i seem a bit leggy, although i realize the true problem would lie in my wingspan, as two people can have the same torso yet be 6 0 or 5 0.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Blackhawk on May 22, 2015, 06:18:52 PM: The mock ups with tib and femur look fine. I would probably do tibs first. I am 167 with a knee height of close to 51 cms. I will probably do tibs because mine are pretty short. You should be able to add 6 cms and have no issues at all with proportions.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Moubgf on May 22, 2015, 06:29:13 PM: you look great
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 22, 2015, 06:31:51 PM: what if i only do tibs, do i not seen overly leggy in the tibs to you.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 22, 2015, 10:05:10 PM: I think overall I would like to do 6cm on tibs, if i ever do femurs id do 5cm on them, as i feel i care less about the height at that point, that would actually put me at the male average for my region.

but i'd want the 6cm first, because the height really matters there in the first height surgery.

even then I'm not sure what the point in the second surgery would be, i could just wear 4cm lifts, not ideal but they're easy to walk in.

I realize I'm going round in circles here, sorry about that.

but i DO worry about having really long bottom legs assuming I only do 1 surgery, are you sure i would look okay with just that? it is in that case i think maybe i should only do 5cm, then later i can do another 5 and remain in proportion better in both cases.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 01:07:21 AM: thanks Blackhawk

after much thought I will only be doing one height surgery of either 5 or 6cm, so I need to decide based on proportions which one I should go for.

apologies for previous posts I got carried away with the new nail which made me think i could do alot more with less pain.

so this is one surgery only, i am content with 169 as much as i am 170 so my priority is to not look too strange in the mirror for my tibia, i like to wear shorts a lot as well.

any advice on whether to choose 5 or 6cm would mean a lot to me, and any general advice on how to do a mockup will be great.

i will be seeing my gp soon, so i hope to get an x-ray, i guess if my ratio is close I will likely be doing 5cm instead.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Blackhawk on May 25, 2015, 02:38:39 AM: No problem. I'm happy to help.

Let us know what your femur and tib measurements are when you get them. I'm sure you can pull off 5cms on tibs pretty easily. My tibs are 51cms and seem pretty short. Yours would be 53 after 5 cms of lengthening; still a reasonable length at a height of 169.

The advice of veterans of LL is to not decide on a number prior to LL. See how you look and feel at 5 cms, then decide if you can do 6, or more.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 02:47:37 AM: 1 extra cm may not seem much but damn are my legs really short, when looking down on my legs and imagining 7cm added to my tibs i think that will look way too long.

But I will wait on the x-rays and let the numbers decide.

I know many people here are at 170 and getting LL, may say to not pay attention to proportions and even go for 7cm but I am happy to wear say a 4cm lift to bring me to 173/5' 8", which is 2cm below the male average, which i'm very happy with.

I know lots of guys 169 that wear a 1cm lift (you get 1cm from any formal wear shoes, and various boots like doc martin etc.), its a very common height, sadly i only know 1 other person my height, it's kind of rare and your always the shortest in the room, with LL i hope to become a more common height, but i realize people come here to go from 'a little short' to the male average which i respect, but to re-iterate im more interested in proportions over height and im only doing 1 LL and i wear shorts all the time when inside.

I guess that means femurs would be best as you wont see the scars easily? but I will need to look into that further, seems tibs is the most common option.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Ghostfish on May 25, 2015, 03:24:36 AM: Hi microman

Personally, I think longer femurs look better than tibs. Unless you are planning on two surgeries, I think 6-7 cm femur will be great for you. After that, if you still feel like to add more height, you can do tibs. That is my thought.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 04:04:05 AM: Might be right there, just did a few mock-ups, i think i only added on 4cm.

tibs
http://i.imgur.com/ink1xff.jpg?1

femur
http://i.imgur.com/vCqMAeH.jpg?1

Isn't femur a nightmare with externals, meaning it will be lon/latn only, i will only be doing the more budget options, also mitkovic's device allows for femur as well so that is also another option.

and yeah 7cm looks almost 25% of my tibia, i have really short legs.

and why are tibs much more popular anyway, is there some other advantage i should be aware of.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Blackhawk on May 25, 2015, 04:49:27 AM: Internal femurs is the way to go if you have the money. External femurs seems like it is a nightmare but there aren't many diaries for this method. Most people are on a budget and external tibs is the only option for most people.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 05:25:32 AM: ill see what the x-rays say, i guess mitkovic would be my only option if i wanted femurs.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on May 25, 2015, 06:56:18 AM: I though Mitkovic doesn't do internals anymore. Do you think about external femur lengthening?
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Samuimw on May 25, 2015, 07:45:31 AM: I think you look much better with longer tibias.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on May 25, 2015, 08:19:16 AM: Yes, It gives you the impression of being taller and slimer than you actually are. However, tibias take way longer to recover and you can't lengthen as as much as on the femurs. Another bonus of the femur lengthening is that it' much easier to hide simply by wearing your pants a little lower. Long tibias are pretty easy to spot imo.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 11:34:43 AM: I consolodate faster with femurs?

well that's pretty interesting, sadly i can't afford internal femurs.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on May 25, 2015, 11:51:35 AM: Tibia is your only choice then, yes it's much faster due to the higher blood flow. Just read some diaries and you'll get an idea of the differences between ex tibias and internal femurs in terms of recovery.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on May 25, 2015, 08:43:52 PM: well i might be able to do mitkovic femur.

so would you say it takes 8 month for tibia 5cm, or 6 months for femur 5cm lengthening.

can only assume the consolodation stage takes less time.

i think this should be mentioned in the main pages including the FAQ's etc, there is no immediate mention of this.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 15, 2015, 12:15:37 AM: Okay I have a MUCH better picture where the angle is more to the legs (http://i.imgur.com/nyDpYLal.jpg?1)

so would 5cm tibs look alright? I'm a bit concerned as my tibs seem to be not that short.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: lumiere on June 16, 2015, 12:02:27 PM: Femours better in my opinion.

Lumiere
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Taller on June 16, 2015, 05:33:11 PM: Losing weight will help you much more than LL will. Plus, losing the weight will help train you as LL will require a lot of discipline and resistance to physical pain.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Uppland on June 16, 2015, 07:15:35 PM: Based on the pic and my (less than perfect) eye measurement I'd say you should lengthen your femurs rather than your tibias.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 16, 2015, 09:13:13 PM: hmm, its only 5cm so lets hope it doens't make things look too wierd.

on the weight thing i will ask mitkovic if its a factor,i am within normal range of weight but on the very upper end of that range.

sadly if i do surgery in the next 2 months i can't see me losing much weight, but i will try and eat less starting from now.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on June 16, 2015, 09:22:02 PM: Start a workout routine in combination with an eating plan quickly. Your wheight will be bad for your recovery
The bloodflow is generally less swift among people who carry around a little too much fat, being sportive and flexible is defenitely helpful for this.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Descreteuser on June 16, 2015, 09:58:51 PM: Quote from: microman on June 16, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
hmm, its only 5cm so lets hope it doens't make things look too wierd.

on the weight thing i will ask mitkovic if its a factor,i am within normal range of weight but on the very upper end of that range.

sadly if i do surgery in the next 2 months i can't see me losing much weight, but i will try and eat less starting from now.

Ur weight won't be a problem.. But being in shape will make make this process much easier.. Walking with the walker requires upper body strength so the less body strength you have the more difficult it will be when you are trying to walk earlier on.. Ull recover no matter what it's just it will be quicker if ur a bit stronger and fitter.. The speed of your recovery is dependent on how much effort you put in.. The fitter and stronger you are the easier it will be to put that effort in.. I'd highly suggest hit the gym 4 times a week with a bit of cardio each time along with eating right and in 2 months ull be in much better shape to make this process easier.. The last thing u wanna do is be lazy when doing this..
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 16, 2015, 10:05:52 PM: hmmm i kinda thought weight wouldn't be a huge problem i haven't seen any mention of BMI requirements not once on any pre-requisits, I like to think there have been overweight people that have done this surgery, I'm not really overweigh, no one has ever called me fat or anything, just looks worse with no clothes on.

however dr mitkovic did ask my weight in a questionare, but he hasn't replied back and told me about how my weight would affect the operation.

anyway i think it wolud be a good idea to lose weight anyway, below are my stats

Current weight
147lbs/66kg/10st 7lbs for 164.5cm height, bmi is 24.6

Goal weight for pre-op.
120lbs/54Kg/8st 7lbs for 164.5cm height, bmi 20

so i plan to lose 2 stone if i can, going to jog everyday, drink only water and eat healthy.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: G-Man on June 16, 2015, 10:33:52 PM: No offense but it always cracks me up when I hear "stones", sounds so prehistoric! ;)
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 17, 2015, 02:18:38 AM: upon looking at my absolute length of the tibia, rather than the ratio, it looks to me like 4cm would be my maximum, given how short my legs are.

I have provided a picture here, as you can see my tibia is about the length of two PS4 controllers!

(http://i.imgur.com/xUaEwrMl.jpg?1)

Note the camera angle isn't' the best so it appears my leg is 1.5x ps4 controllers, but it is more like 2.

I would like any advice, would you say I should do 4 or 5cm?
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 18, 2015, 06:03:44 AM: okay im trying to measure my tibia and femur using a measuring tape, i can't get x-rays here withouth a doctors referal so that's not an option.

i got 37 for tibs, and 45? for femur, i used these two picturse as a guide, but maybe they are wrong as to me i seem to have quite long tibs
(http://www.uncg.edu/kin/images/TL.png)

(http://www.cyclefit.nl/assets/Uploads/images/_resampled/resizedimage300445-metingen03-copia.jpg)

i am confused about the femur measurements, am i not meant to stop the measuring tape when i get to the hip bone, or keep going far back to my very back, as one measurment is 43, the other is 52!

i realise after LL i can have tibs the same length as femur, and that is acceptable, im only doing 5 so i want to make sure there is at least 1cm more femur than tib post op.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on June 18, 2015, 04:38:33 PM: These measurements aren´t very useful since they don´t measure the bone to it´s exact length. Just go to an orthopaedic and tell him that you think you have a leg length difference and you´d like it to get them checked. Or simply pay 100 pounds or whatever it costs to get them (it won´t be too much).
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 19, 2015, 12:27:34 AM: i went to a private hospital, they said they wouldn't do it because it is an unnecessary exposure to radiation.

they said 'x-ray if for diagnostic, unless I am operating on you, i will not do it', i said i want to find out the length of my bones to know the difference, he said he would not do it.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on June 19, 2015, 10:39:49 PM: Well thats weird than, I just got it when I asked for it, I didn't even had to pay for it.
I guess it highly depends on the country your're living in, I am sure though, that there is a way of getting these x-rays If you pay them.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 19, 2015, 10:52:46 PM: yeah sucks big time, that was the only private hospital in my area, not sure what to do.

it would kindof suck if i could only do 4cm on tibs, say if my femurs are only 4cm longer than tibs, i know tibs can't be longer than femurs.

I don't think mitkovic really does femurs much.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 27, 2015, 08:16:18 AM: okay I have done 2 mockups of myself, one after doing 10cm, 5cm per leg, the other one after 5cm LL, in both of these i am wearing a 2cm lift in my shoes, this mockup is with clothes on which i think is a better representation of how people view me 99% of the time.

so the 10cm mockup puts me at 176.5cm, the 5cm 171.5cm, both these figures take into account the 2cm lift.

for the 10cm mockup that would put me at about 10cm taller than my wingspan if I was to stand barefoot.

if you saw a person like this, would you think anything of it?

(http://i.imgur.com/AAhh3v3l.jpg?1)

now here is a side by side one comparing the 10cm with the 5cm, when you view it like this the 2nd picture looks way more natural i think, surprisingly the longer tibs of the 5cm picture is not noticable at all, obivously in the 10cm one i would have my natural tib/femur ratio.

(http://i.imgur.com/AAhh3v3l.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/Fb5kUUMl.jpg?1)

I guess maybe I could get a 2nd LL and not wear the 2cm lift, in which case i would look acceptable and be 3cm taller than I was before, however i don't think it's worth the fuss of another op. just for 3cm of height when I will be 171.5cm anyway (using 2cm lift).
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on June 27, 2015, 09:58:42 AM: Don´t think too much about getting two LL before you even got one. Looking too far ahead isn´t helpful, you should also take into account that your only option (based on your current budget) is external femur lengthening which is known to be very unpleasent. I remember that someone mentioned the poor regeneration after external femurs due to the heavy muscle damage that is done by the pins piercing trough the muscles.
I haven´t seen a single decent running video of a LL patient who got 2 LL. Everything I saw varried between bad and horrible (including Apo´s video, which looks far from natural but still good compared to some others).
-10 wingspan looks bad imo.
Sorry if I appear rude but this is just my honest oppinion.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on June 27, 2015, 10:04:21 AM: no that's okay, just wanted to know, as i said i think it also looks bad, but then again people have are like that anyway so it's hard to judge.

(http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/rangers2.jpg)

AL is also an option as well, here is a mockup of about 4cm per arm for AL.

(http://i.imgur.com/orqmY2Jl.jpg?1)
wow i look way normal now, seems to have totally solved the issue.

and yeah apotheosis did 20cm, that will seriously compromise athletic ability, 5cm per bone shouldn't really do that.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on June 27, 2015, 10:45:58 AM: Forget AL and the second round of LL for the moment, just focus on what is in the near future. Do this step by step and keep your goals realistic, perhaps you have already changed your mind at the time you finished your first lengthening.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on July 03, 2015, 05:21:36 PM: i've decided im not going to wear lifts in my life anymore, so i have done a mockup of 10cm, 5 per and no lift, i want to know if i have to do AL if i plan to do this.

if i need AL i wont do this, but if i don't i may do it.

(http://i.imgur.com/779qIDtl.jpg?1)

personally i don't think it looks good at all, and its more 9cm than 10cm.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Alittletooshort on July 03, 2015, 05:45:06 PM: It doesn't look good imo, your shoulders are way to narrow for the long legs. It simply looks not natural, but that's just my opinnion others may judge it differently.
I'd stick to one lengthening and wear lifts instead. I woudln't think about two lengthening anyways, you haven't had one yet.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on July 03, 2015, 06:21:11 PM: i agree looks bad, anyway here is me 5cm taller with 1 LL.

(http://i.imgur.com/JWNKBOMl.jpg?1)

I am only 2.5cm taller than wingspan here so I think I look way normal here.

in the case of arm lengthening if I do a 2nd ll i will would only need 2.5cm per arm to get this same wingspan, so although AL sounds a bit nutty it should be easy-ish to do, at least a lot easier than the people that do 9cm on one leg.

only problem is price but I think solomin offers it and his prices are affordable enough to do both, I would like to know how humerus lengthening goes with him as there is a patient diary with him who may do AL very soon.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: G-Man on July 03, 2015, 08:32:28 PM: People come here with height neurosis and develop proportions neurosis as well. Don't go that route, nobody pays attention to that.
I think you look perfectly normal at 10cm, in fact I thought it was your actual pre-mockup picture.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Morgenst. on July 03, 2015, 08:37:04 PM: Agreed. If you want 10cm to the untrained eye you look fine but losing the gut and working your shoulders a bit will only help your aesthetic proportionality if you care about that which from this thread id say yeah. Ether way best of luck what made you pick dr Mitkovic?
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: microman on July 03, 2015, 09:15:45 PM: well I guess we all think differently about things, I don't think proportion neurososis exists but the wingspan thing is like a statisticall improbability so you have a right about being concerned about your wingspan, your born wingspan was designed with your height in mind so I have to respect that somewhat.

I chose mitkoic for the following reasons

•   Minimally-sized and fully weight-bearing externals monorails of his own design.
•   Highly recommended on old forum and has a lot of diaries and maybe about 100 cosmetic cases.
•   His device is less invasive and much easier to manage than external ilazarov barinov/solomins.
•   It is apparently less painful, as the ilazarov pins penetrate the muscle, with mitkovic device you just have 6 pins on the front of the shin which don’t penetrate any muscle.
•   You don’t need a visa; so no waiting for Russian visa or getting fingerprints.
•   The device is much more aesthetically pleasing than ilazarov,
•   The device is easier to wear and less clumsy than ilzarov,sleeping in bed with just a bar on the front of your legs vs. a full ring may be easier
•   Apparently the device is not as noticeable to wear as the ilazarov is, some people say they forget it’s there, that would be a good feeling during consolidation.
•   You are in direct contact with doctor at any time with phone.
•   The food and facilities are good as you are in hotel.
•   You can take the device off personally at home, no need for re-surgery or going back to Russia for another surgery, making the LL journey a bit easier.
Title: Re: how will i look after LL
Post by: Taller on July 04, 2015, 01:34:42 AM: Quote from: Herron52 on July 03, 2015, 08:37:04 PM
Agreed. If you want 10cm to the untrained eye you look fine but losing the gut and working your shoulders a bit will only help your aesthetic proportionality if you care about that which from this thread id say yeah. Ether way best of luck what made you pick dr Mitkovic?

I completely agree. Your first priority should be loosing weight, not LL. I guarantee that people view you worse because of your weight than because of your height.