Limb Lengthening Forum
Community Hangout => Off Topic => Topic started by: FutureLengthener on March 11, 2015, 06:24:47 AM
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Before I knew about this miracle of a surgery I kind of had my height in the back of my mind, but I mostly shrugged it off. I just figured with good enough muscles and personality, plus meeting women that weren't heightists, I would be able to get by. And I guess I did. But once I learned about LL , I almost started obsessing about it, I feel like my real life can't start until I reach a better height. If I didn't know about LL, I would have probably taken the "just accept what God gave you!" attitude about my height and moved on. Now I won't be truly satisfied until I get my femoral lengthening done.
Don't get me wrong--those extra centimeters will make an enormous difference in our lives, but anyone else find all this talk about lengthening and the heightism we face aggravates your neurosis?
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Of course. It's much easier to accept something that we can't change. Knowing that we can change our height does make the problem worse.
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Of course. It's much easier to accept something that we can't change. Knowing that we can change our height does make the problem worse.
I agree--partially. I was nearly suicidal before discovering ll, however.
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i have been insecure since i'm 17, now i'm 22, i discovered ll lwhen i was 19.
it doesn't make me more insecure, but i'm more ambitious.
The cost of the procedure pushed me to work hard, now i am in a school wich has a high rank, and i've decided to pursue my studies in order to work in oil and gas to make more money and afford a good doctor like guichet.
LL has good benefits, but on another side, i wish i wall tall and poor instead of average and having a good career
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No. Im happy for discover it. This gives me the oportunity to have a better height and improve my life very much
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i have been insecure since i'm 17, now i'm 22, i discovered ll lwhen i was 19.
it doesn't make me more insecure, but i'm more ambitious.
The cost of the procedure pushed me to work hard, now i am in a school wich has a high rank, and i've decided to pursue my studies in order to work in oil and gas to make more money and afford a good doctor like guichet.
LL has good benefits, but on another side, i wish i wall tall and poor instead of average and having a good career
u're like 6'0 dude
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I can only speak for myself...and perhaps I will feel differently once I'm fully recovered and actually able to enjoy my new height...but I feel like LL has made my height neurosis worse. I feel better about myself when I "walk" (on crutches with duckass) in public because I'm now taller than almost every woman I see, and don't feel as dwarfed by the (still considerable number of) men who are taller than me.
But now I feel like the notion of LL (and knowing I could do a second one, even though I 99.9% won't at my age) and being able to "change" height the way I could just go to the gym and change my body has made me obsess over it more. Like, I'm splitting hairs on 6.85/6.9 versus 7cm when there's no difference (and when my original goal was 6.5cm). I'm also comparing myself to other people who did LL and were able to lengthen more (and it makes me sick how average guys do this too).
I think in a while I will just have to leave the forums altogether if I'm to ever leave the height neurosis behind.
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I don't wish I never found out about CLL, because it gives hope to one day be taller.
I do however wish I could make my mind stop being in height neurosis mode. My height neurosis was triggered by hearing a girl mention that the number one thing girls notice in guys is their height, and it hasn't gone away since.
There are tens of millions of short to average height men in the US, and this forum has MAYBE a few hundred members. Shows how f'ed up in the head a lot of us are.
Honestly, I wish I could wake up tomorrow and never think about height again.
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I don't wish I never found out about CLL, because it gives hope to one day be taller.
I do however wish I could make my mind stop being in height neurosis mode. My height neurosis was triggered by hearing a girl mention that the number one thing girls notice in guys is their height, and it hasn't gone away since.
There are tens of millions of short to average height men in the US, and this forum has MAYBE a few hundred members. Shows how f'ed up in the head a lot of us are.
Honestly, I wish I could wake up tomorrow and never think about height again.
My thoughts exactly.
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I totally agree with Newheights
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I totally agree with Newheights
You're not short dude. Get off the forums before it's too late :)
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You're not short dude. Get off the forums before it's too late :)
Yes I know, my height is rather short to average. It still bothers me since I'm a child :P
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Yes I know, my height is rather short to average. It still bothers me since I'm a child :P
Where do you live? In the United States, you're average at worst.
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Austria, Vienna to be precice. I haven't seen statistics about the average just height for Vienna. The average at the army examination (every young austrian male has to do it) for my group was 180,4 (we received a sheet with our specific data compared to the average). We were about 200 guys between 17-19, idk wether it's enough to prove it or not.
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no one told me I was short.
and it didn't get any change from finding out about it online.
I knew it was a problem when I was 14, when little children were taller than me, I didn't care if adults(close to my age) were taller than me unless they dwarfed me, however when the simple fact that children sooo young were taller than me. I knew in that moment that it would be embarrassing.
because I felt like I was in the body of a child. whether ll exists or not, we will all feel like children. imagine going to school to pick your kids up and the students/kids are all taller than you. whether ll exists or not this is reality for you. and you will feel it.
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FP - what was your starting height?
I'm thinking that instead of posting what the new "average height" is for the "young generation," maybe we should keep track of the growing average height of people who want to do LL. I feel like on this website, 6ft is the new 5'8". Sad. But money talks.....
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Austria, Vienna to be precice. I haven't seen statistics about the average just height for Vienna. The average at the army examination (every young austrian male has to do it) for my group was 180,4 (we received a sheet with our specific data compared to the average). We were about 200 guys between 17-19, idk wether it's enough to prove it or not.
how many were 17 yo, and at which hour were they measured? (just to determine the height loss)
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i travelled to vienna 4 years ago, and i would have said the average is 180 cm, based on simple observations, so i can conclude, with all the due respect to the mental cases who get mad when i say the average height for a young guy is 180 cm, that i'm very accurate when i guess height. :)
On the other hand, that's pretty normal since i'm an engineer and as an engineer, i have to have a good sense of estimating lenght
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I think Dr. Paley regrets it in some aspects.
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from yellowspike:
FP - what was your starting height?
I'm thinking that instead of posting what the new "average height" is for the "young generation," maybe we should keep track of the growing average height of people who want to do LL. I feel like on this website, 6ft is the new 5'8". Sad. But money talks.....
I had a good starting height.
I am not short, but I still get discrimination for being under the average.
I am 171cm.
perhaps at the time of this incident I was a few cm shorter.
my height is a great height, but at this height you need to go to the gym and develop a sexy body(which I do). if you do this you will actually be quite respected and live a perfectly normal life.
however there will be a subsect of the population of girls who will still not date you, usually the more attractive ones.
however after starting my ll journey. my attitude like yours has started to shift. I almost don't even give a fk if a girl was to say I am short, not that it has ever happened.
it goes back to the post I mentioned where when your in a lot of pain and your body is "damaged" you think back to your strong healthy body of the past, and you just think...... I don't really care anymore. because you have a new found value In how you used to be.
however I don't have any terrible things going wrong with my surgery. its just the usual things, 1 thing that really did it for me was this blasted knee pain, combined with decreased range of motion which is hard to fight with knee pain. the knee pain is probably due to a pin which im getting taken out, and the knee pain is subsiding naturally with my efforts.
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I had a good starting height.
I am not short, but I still get discrimination for being under the average.
I am 171cm.
perhaps at the time of this incident I was a few cm shorter.
my height is a great height, but at this height you need to go to the gym and develop a sexy body(which I do). if you do this you will actually be quite respected and live a perfectly normal life.
however there will be a subsect of the population of girls who will still not date you, usually the more attractive ones.
however after starting my ll journey. my attitude like yours has started to shift. I almost don't even give a fk if a girl was to say I am short, not that it has ever happened.
it goes back to the post I mentioned where when your in a lot of pain and your body is "damaged" you think back to your strong healthy body of the past, and you just think...... I don't really care anymore. because you have a new found value In how you used to be.
however I don't have any terrible things going wrong with my surgery. its just the usual things, 1 thing that really did it for me was this blasted knee pain, combined with decreased range of motion which is hard to fight with knee pain. the knee pain is probably due to a pin which im getting taken out, and the knee pain is subsiding naturally with my efforts.
171 is your final height? If so, that's definitely not bad at all. I think if I were 171, I wouldn't have felt the need to do LL.
Even if a guy is the oft-idealized 6'2" (bows down), there are many women who simply will not date them for another reason (they aren't good looking enough, don't make enough money, etc.). Women are a tricky bunch. Not nearly as straightforward as I think we are.
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171 is your final height?
I was 171 before LL.
like I said it is a great height.
and with 1.5 inch lifts I never thought about my height for like 2 years.
it amazed me when after so much time I realized that I wasn't even thinking about my height anymore.
it is because the look in their eyes had changed, there was no longer discrimination in their eyes for me to see.
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however I am an overachiever, I don't really care if people steal respect from me because im not taller than average, because I still have more respect overall because its a culmination of respect points.
however my pride means that I refuse to allow people to act in an unfair manner. to me it doesn't matter if overall I get more respect than my peers or looked up to, the point is I still feel like im being robed and treated unfairly, its not because I have a bad life its because I am a man of principal, and the principal of others treating me in an unjust manner is not something I will tolerate.
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how many were 17 yo, and at which hour were they measured? (just to determine the height loss)
Most of us were 17, you have to do it in the year you turn 18 probably around 90% were 17 1\2ish. Some exeptions had to redo it one year later because either they had an injury or they just fked up at the mental tests.
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I was 171 before LL.
like I said it is a great height.
and with 1.5 inch lifts I never thought about my height for like 2 years.
it amazed me when after so much time I realized that I wasn't even thinking about my height anymore.
it is because the look in their eyes had changed, there was no longer discrimination in their eyes for me to see.
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however I am an overachiever, I am a literal genious who went to university when I was going through puberty. I don't really care if people steal respect from me because im not taller than average, because I still have more respect overall because its a culmination of respect points.
however my pride means that I refuse to allow people to act in an unfair manner. to me it doesn't matter if overall I get more respect than my peers or looked up to, the point is I still feel like im being robed and treated unfairly, its not because I have a bad life its because I am a man of principal, and the principal of others treating me in an unjust manner is not something I will tolerate.
Oh ok, I misunderstood what you said. That's a fantastic starting height, I wish I was that tall to begin with. Not sure how much you lengthened, but your height should never be an issue for you now.
And I totally understand what you're saying about the discrimination aspect of being short. I'm an overachiever as well, and also a perfectionist (which is why I'm stressing over like 1mm, lol). I don't like to be told I can't do things, and I don't like to fail at things.
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Most of us were 17, you have to do it in the year you turn 18 probably around 90% were 17 ish. Some exeptions
91% of everyone was 17 at some point in their lives yesterday.
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How tall are you aimng for, Forced Puberty?
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How tall are you aimng for, Forced Puberty
I am doing 6.5cm on tibia.
I would be happy doing that. however the plan is to do 5cm femur after the 6.5cm tibia (surgery 5 months apart, back to back.)
if I was to return home after tibia I would not come back for another operation.
but since I am already here, and the best height is around 6 foot. I will stick to the plan.
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What's your wingspan FP?
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around 6cm over original height. so it will be 5.5cm under finished height.
I have the money saved for humerus lengthening if I want it. however I don't plan on even addressing that decision until femur and tibia is complete.
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I am doing 6.5cm on tibia.
I would be happy doing that. however the plan is to do 5cm femur after the 6.5cm tibia (surgery 5 months apart, back to back.)
I know there is a lot of debate in this forum about proportions. When I first discovered this surgery, I just wanted to get tall without any regard to proportions. Then I got my x-rays and measured my tibia/femur length. I heard that the perfect ratio is 0.8 tibia/femur. Being within this ratio would probably give your legs very nice proportional aesthetic appearance, and at the same time better equilibrium while squatting down, walking up stairs, maybe even running.
In order to maintain close to this perfect ratio, I would have to get two separate lengthening surgeries. The way I determined how much to lengthen each segment was to do the following:
1. Determine goal height (eg 183cm/6ft)
2. Initial starting height (eg 170cm/5'7")
3. Determine original tibia length(eg 40cm) and original femur length(eg 51cm)
4. Your starting tibia/femur ratio is (40/51)=0.78 (slightly longer femurs than average)
5. You need to lengthen 13cm to go from 170cm to 183cm.
6. You add 13cm + 40cm(tibia) + 51cm(femur)= 104cm total final leg length.
7. Your new femur goal length is going to be 104cm/1.8= 57.78cm
8. Your new tibia goal length is going to be 104cm-57.78cm= 46.22cm
9. So now you have 46.22cm(tibia) / 57.78cm(femur)= 0.79999 = 0.8 ratio
10. So to achieve this ratio from the previous starting bone length;
a. Tibia lengthening required is 46.22cm - 40cm = 6.22cm
b. Femur lengthening required is 57.78cm - 51cm = 6.78cm
I just thought I mentioned this since you are considering doing both segments and you can determine how much to lengthen down to the last millimeter to get very proportionate legs.
I watched Andrewshizzles first Youtube video where he is messing around in his bedroom, and you can notice that every time he squats down, his body weight forces him down on his ass and he makes it look as he is doing it on purpose. Having very disproportionate limbs will throw off the center of gravity and equilibrium beyond what your physiology will be able to compensate.
Just thought this might help just in case you didn't know this already.
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thank you for your input.
I too calculated a lot of things
I also added that the new height I have my navel will be at 1.618 and my penis will be at exactly half my height.
however. 13cm for total height is to much especially if doing it back to back.
5cm is the limit for femur. especially if you have done tibia only 5 months prior.
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that 1cm difference will not change the biomechanics.
your also making 1 mistake. everyone has different ratios compared to average, so do you want perfect golden ratios, or do you want to keep the ratio you have developed equilibrium with over the last 20 years.
then there is another question you have to ask: did your malnutrition rob you of height from your lower limbs unequally.
my basic point is that there is no such thing as perfection. just ranges.
and if you lengthen 6.5cm tibia and 5cm femur, that 1cm you didn't add to your femur wont even register on the scale.
just my 2 cents.
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I think Dr. Paley regrets it in some aspects.
Why do you say that?
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Before discovering LL, I was definitely having my feeling of inadequacy but when I discovered the operation, I met people on the forums and realised that something can be done. Now I see LL as a goal in my life. Assuming I knew nothing about LL, I would probably feel like despairing rather than thinking "I will do this and succeed".
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my basic point is that there is no such thing as perfection. just ranges.
I couldn't agree with you more. The only reason I mentioned all those calculations was to point out that those who are lucky enough to get 2 limb lengthening surgeries can come up with "ideal" numbers to maintain a healthy range.
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Oh ok, I misunderstood what you said. That's a fantastic starting height, I wish I was that tall to begin with. Not sure how much you lengthened, but your height should never be an issue for you now.
And I totally understand what you're saying about the discrimination aspect of being short. I'm an overachiever as well, and also a perfectionist (which is why I'm stressing over like 1mm, lol). I don't like to be told I can't do things, and I don't like to fail at things.
I am perfectionist too, but to stress over 1mm.. that's borderline mental :-\ There are going to be many psychotic cosmetic surgery patients who are upset cos' the left side is larger/smaller than the right side by 1mm or 2mm. Isn't that more significant to have an imbalance on YOUR FACE? So a fortriori, your issue is just psychological/psychiatric.
I have slight (within standard deviation) angle deivation of right femurs and I don't even care.
My right cheekbone is larger than my left by 1-2 mm and I don't even care, I've been told many times I look good, and I used to model.
perfectionist to the extreme is OCD.
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i travelled to vienna 4 years ago, and i would have said the average is 180 cm, based on simple observations, so i can conclude, with all the due respect to the mental cases who get mad when i say the average height for a young guy is 180 cm, that i'm very accurate when i guess height. :)
On the other hand, that's pretty normal since i'm an engineer and as an engineer, i have to have a good sense of estimating lenght
You must be a nutcase for an engineer to trust your visual perception rather than much more precise and accurate ways of measuring height (stadiometer) which shows the average is 176 cm (look at the PDF files you posted) in America, and 177 for White US young males. Ever heard of parallax error and perception bias?
Right, I guess you passed your Measurements module with flying colours. You are psychic.
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Parody.
endomorphisme: posted some pdf files on average height by, inter alia, the us govt departments....
itsmylife: clearly the average is about 177+ for US white young males
endomorphisme: goes into rage.... :( :( :( :( :( :(
endomorphisme: YOU ARE MENTAL CASE! IT IS 180! I have psychic abilities. 0.00 cm measurement error!! The government is just some big conspiracy machine!!! I have the average height!!!! YOU ARE MENTAL!!!
itsmylife: *defeated* *wonders if he really went to study nuclear* *perhaps he has a nuclear powered electronic laser-equipped mind**alternative diagnosis: delusion or radiation sickness*
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I am perfectionist too, but to stress over 1mm.. that's borderline mental :-\ There are going to be many psychotic cosmetic surgery patients who are upset cos' the left side is larger/smaller than the right side by 1mm or 2mm. Isn't that more significant to have an imbalance on YOUR FACE? So a fortriori, your issue is just psychological/psychiatric.
I have slight (within standard deviation) angle deivation of right femurs and I don't even care.
My right cheekbone is larger than my left by 1-2 mm and I don't even care, I've been told many times I look good, and I used to model.
perfectionist to the extreme is OCD.
The only thing I will say (not that this changes anything, I own up to the fact that I'm being OCD) is that many people on here start at 5'8" and do 2 surgeries. I don't have that luxury, money, time or proportion wise. So I just wanted to be absolutely certain that I at least achieved my goal of getting to an evening height of 5'8". I've been measured a few times (still which duckass), and each time I came in at just over 5'8", so I think I'm fine. But then I worry about compression loss, error of measurement, etc. When you grow up your entire life and you hear (from men and women alike) that a certain height is like a cutoff, it makes you want to be absolutely sure you got it (and in my case, in one LL procedure).
But regardless, you are right. It is crazy and OCD. I've just invested too much into this, and I guess I'm the kind of person who can't not achieve my goals. I won't go into specifics about my accomplishments so as to retain my privacy...but I'm a very type-A person, and yes, a perfectionist. But yeah...I do realize I'm being unreasonable, I even said this in my diary. I admit, I got caught up in the numbers game (when I probably did get my goal anyway).
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The only thing I will say (not that this changes anything, I own up to the fact that I'm being OCD) is that many people on here start at 5'8" and do 2 surgeries. I don't have that luxury, money, time or proportion wise. So I just wanted to be absolutely certain that I at least achieved my goal of getting to an evening height of 5'8". I've been measured a few times (still which duckass), and each time I came in at just over 5'8" ,so I think I'm fine. But then I worry about compression loss, error of measurement, etc. When you grow up your entire life and you hear (from men and women alike) that a certain height is like a cutoff, it makes you want to be absolutely sure you got it (and in my case, in one LL procedure).
But regardless, you are right. It is crazy and somewhat OCD. I've just invested too much into this, and I guess I'm the kind of person who can't not achieve my goals. I won't go into specifics about my accomplishments so as to retain my privacy...but I'm a very type-A person, and yes, a perfectionist. But yeah...I do realize I'm being unreasonable, I even said this in my diary. I admit, I got caught up in the numbers game (when I probably did get my goal anyway.
Understand your frustration, but it has been going on for some time. the normal patient will just think about it, and not obsess over it every minute. If this issue affects your social life and functioning, then it is by definition (DSM-IV) a mental illness.
I was told that I have bad knee contracture on right side (due to being wheelchair bound for weeks due to broken frame). And I might not even reach 6 feet. I am not even thinking much about it. I am happy to have gained 5 cm+.
Embrace flaws! Even 5'8 is a flaw, if you think of it, since women chose 6' as the ideal. There's no big deal being 1 mm above or lower
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Understand your frustration, but it has been going on for some time. the normal patient will just think about it, and not obsess over it every minute. If this issue affects your social life and functioning, then it is by definition (DSM-IV) a mental illness.
It's not affecting my life, and I don't believe it will in the future once I've recovered. I think once I've recovered and I'm actually walking, I will appreciate my new height a lot more, regardless of how tall I am down to the mm. I'm just currently in somewhat of a state of flux as I recover (with potentially the option to click a bit more, which I'll find out with my new x-rays).
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It's not affecting my life, and I don't believe it will in the future once I've recovered. I think once I've recovered and I'm actually walking, I will appreciate my new height a lot more, regardless of how tall I am down to the mm. I'm just currently in somewhat of a state of flux as I recover (with potentially the option to click a bit more, which I'll find out with my new x-rays).
As dr guichet said you risk getting a #, so why risk it??
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As dr guichet said you risk getting a #, so why risk it??
i'm not going to risk it until he sees the x-rays and confirms it. If he says, after seeing the x-rays, not to click anymore, I definitely won't do it. I'm not an idiot.
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the only value of the (DSM-IV) is as toilet paper after you have accomplished a big of 15 kurics in size.
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i'm not going to risk it until he sees the x-rays and confirms it. If he says, after seeing the x-rays, not to click anymore, I definitely won't do it. I'm not an idiot.
OK bro. Be very careful.
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the only value of the (DSM-IV) is as toilet paper after you have accomplished a big crap of 15 kurics in size.
LOL.